Otherworldly metals and materials

[Scarecrow]

We know already that Sui Generis will feature different types of metals and material for weapons and armor, and that they will also differ in quality. What i wonder is whether we will see other types of metals and material, besides the traditional once such as iron and steel? I'm not expecting anything like mithril, but personally i think it would be cool if the world would feature some original and non-traditional metals and materials. Could result in even more variation for weapons and armors.

Now i know this is a world of low fantasy, and it's definitively not essential as I'm sure they would be able to come up with enough variation in their weapons and armors without otherworldly metals and materials. But what do you guys think of it?

 

[Komuflage]

If there is a real purpose for it, then why not but as you say "I'm sure they would be able to come up with enough variation in their weapons and armors without otherworldly metals and materials"

 

[Tessaya]

Not otherworldly at all, but titanium could be added without too much trouble :
- not that unrealistic to find as it is a pretty common material in both Earth's crust and living beings (the method to produce it involves chimistry and was not known in the middle ages but that's already being too technical for a game)
- it has great effect on metal alloys (highest strength to weight of all known metals and corrosion resistance, which would both find its use in the context of SG in the making of very high quality items)
- pure it has a deep blue reflect, which is cool for a change instead of the greyish metals you'd find anywhere.

 

[Scarecrow]

Yeah, it doesn't necessarily have to be otherworldly either. It's not often that titanium is done in games, so I think it could be cool. But at long as it's enough variation in the weapons and armors, we don't need that many different metals and stuff really, but i think it could be cool to see other metals than greyish metals, as you said.

 

[Cooper Holt]

I totally agree that titanium should be in the game, as well as some other slightly bizarre metals. Like moonstone or orichalcum in Skyrim, for example. Not too bizarre, and not too far from real metals, but still a little different, just to spice things up a bit.
E.g.: A sword made of "chritonium", (just using that name as an example of a new metal) an alloy made of two different "new" metals, is superior to iron in that it doesn't rust and it is more lightweight (much like stainless steel), but it is inferior to stainless steel in how flexible it is.

 

[Zervostyrd]

Well, Even without "otherwordly" materials you do have a variety off usable materials.

*Different kinds of non-ore graded stone, such as flint, quartz etc.. Always usable as a last resort. Easy to find, usually hard to work with (not always).

*Wood - See above..

*Animal bones - See above..

*Copper - A quite simple material to extract, work with and refine. However the quality are grossly inferior due to the structural weakness of the material itself...

*Tin - A quite simple material to extract, work with and refine. In itself also brittle as with copper.. Pewter belongs here too..

*Brass - The goldish looking material is a Copper and Zinc alloy. Not as good as bronze for use in weapons and armor but could certainly make due..
(I don't bother listing Zinc since it has few uses besides melting it with Copper or Galvanzing steel (1800s idea...))

*Bronze - Now here is where quality steps through the door. Not as high quality as steel, but Bronze outshines the earlier listed material greatly. Albeit almost as expensive as steel... Copper and Tin alloy.

*Steel - (Iron belongs here, but "Iron" doesn't really exist past the extraction from the lesser stone), Anyway, depending on the amount off coal infused with the Iron. Steel varies in quality from "acceptable" to "Superior".

@Tessaya and @Scarecrow: Finding Titanium ain't the hard part. It's refining it that is. It's so hard even today to do it in a economical fashion with modern tech. The fact that it wasn't even discovered until the late 18th centuary, and add to that that it wasn't until after 1932 that humanity found a way to actually use it as a material for constructing anything. And it wasn't until the 1950s that it was employed en mass!

 

[fluffydino2000]

Was silver ever used for weaponry? I think it would be cool if silver weapons were used by characters in the game to fight off "demons" and other races they don't understand. Whether it achieves anything or not, it would be nice to allow the myth to influence the player.

 

[Zervostyrd]

Well there's nothing preventing you to use silver as a weapon, except, it's expensive and inferior to equally as common materials such as Steel... Silver was commonly used as decorations on weapons though, (such as the end of the hilt for example)..

 

[tiny lampe]

I personally have no problems with original materials. However if the idea is to spice things up, Zervostyrd's post shows how there already is plenty of variety in our own world as far as materials that could be used for weaponry are concerned. So... why reinvening the wheel? Also, BareMettle have always expressed their desire to build a consistent, believable world. The most efficient way to achieve that is to draw from reality as frequently as possible.

While I don't have problems with original materials, I want to mention that I'm far less comfortable when such otherworldly materials are shaped in otherworldly forms as well. It seems there is a tendency in RPGs where the higher the quality of the weapon/armor, the more unrealistic the design is. I'm glad BareMattle seems not to be fond of Final Fantasy-style weapons.

 

[Darkzone]

Finding Titanium ain't the hard part. It's refining it that is. It's so hard even today to do it in a economical fashion with modern tech. The fact that it wasn't even discovered until the late 18th centuary, and add to that that it wasn't until after 1932 that humanity found a way to actually use it as a material for constructing anything. And it wasn't until the 1950s that it was employed en mass

I belive it is due to the fact, that titanium is despite being one of the most common elements, in the earths crust, it is always bound to oxygen, making it to titan-()-oxid, which is pretty very stable as a molecule. And to pull the oxygen out is quite a expensive process (not in monetary sense, but more in a energy chemical meaning).
Disclaimer:
But it is a long time ago that i had any interesst in that kind of things and therefore don't take that as full knowledge.

 

[Tessaya]

That's where the use of some low fantasy like alchemistry (already hinted there could be some sorts of elixirs) would help in justifying it. Wouldn't the pros outshine the cons for you ? They definitively do for me.

 

[Empire²]

It completely depends on how far the devs are willing to take the fantasy aspect further than the realistic part of things as far as World Building goes.

I'm definitely not against 'otherworldly' metals and materials. The problem lies with their usage and the advantages/disadvantages you obtain from using one type of metal over another.

You can think of a lot of non-existing materials that have strange and useful properties, like metals that are good for channelling certain types or elements of thaumaturgy or have some magic properties to themselves from the get-go. In my honest opinion, that would be taking things too far. What I would like to see is various properties, realistic and valuable for armour and weapons, being the strengths and weaknesses of different materials.

Things like durability, sharpness, flexibility, air resistance and density are just a few of the properties that using different materials could lend to your weapons and armour. Finding a strange type of metal that is incredibly lightweight and sharp, but is not very durable, would be a perfect fit for a weapon like a dagger, which you rarely use in face-to-face combat. On the other side, you could find a metal which is not as light, loses its edge with just as many uses as the other metal but lasts longer before eventually bending or breaking. This would make for a better material for a primary weapon, a two-handed sword for instance.

The same goes for wood, too. Using a lightweight type of wood for fletching arrows would give you more distance, but less piercing damage, whereas heavier wood exchanges those values.

A lot of these properties exist among real-world materials. However, I feel like adding more materials for diversity is never a bad thing. It is what you use them for that really drives some up the wall while it makes something that much more enjoyable for others. Bizarre and weird types of trees and ores would not only spice up the customisation by a great deal, the game's world in context and lore can benefit from it greatly.

 

[Zervostyrd]

Spoiler

That's where the use of some low fantasy like alchemistry (already hinted there could be some sorts of elixirs) would help in justifying it. Wouldn't the pros outshine the cons for you ? They definitively do for me.

I'm not agaisnt it per se. But I think that in order for anyone to discover it (be it a pro tha.whatever mage, alchemist or whatever) there have to be some indications of the material existing. Something we in reality didn't get until 1790s. In other words, it was just stone until 1790s (when studied with -then- mordern equipment) and then even after that, it was just something not that usefull until 1932...

Had it been a material generally known to the public but nobody really knew what to do with it... (Like mercury, granted it was used for everything but it never worked, except for thermometers and a few tech devices but then again it was found to be replacable, just as in medicine, in which if it didn't kill you outright from poisoning, you'll be driven insane eventually )

Anyway, There is some interesting materials that have some "Fantasy" feeling to them, but still exist IRL and have been used for weapons (mainly) that could easily make it in to the game, like:

Obsidian, Jade and Different forms off quartz (everything from gemstones to the quite common "ordinary white" quartz).

 

[Darkzone]

I think there are so many possibilities of the common materials, that Sui Generis does not need to much fantasy materials. Look alone at the Iron - Steel varieties. If there is crafting in Sui Generis (I dont know, because i did not follow this forum), then we could have many different adaptable designs to a specific fighting style. In the medival times many designs of swords and weapons have been not executed for very different reason, but mostly because of the lack of understanding of many concepts that were introduced / developed much later or because of the lack of modern materials. This alone with the modern mixture and purity or carbon content of steel could make alone an interesting game. The procedure for making titanium requires knowledge about chemistry that is to advanced. But i think in a way i m a hypocrite here: i think of modern steel and technics, and at the same time i m against titanium.

@Zervostyrd
This crystalline material were good in an age or continent without smelting of iron, but since the development and usage of Iron, they have lost their advantages. (But i am not against them in the game, because you can make quite the sharp tools out of them.)

 

[Zervostyrd]

@Zervostyrd
This crystalline material were good in an age or continent without smelting of iron, but since the development and usage of Iron, they have lost their advantages. (But i am not against them in the game, because you can make quite the sharp tools out of them.)

Yeah, they'd be as obsolete as a cavalery charge is today...

Spoiler

No matter. They are awsome, they easily catch the "ridiculous, oversized, weapon that would indeed be utterly useless IRL but somehow still good enough ingame" feeling of other RPGs.

It's not like they'd be any good because if the enemy is wearing anything more than a leather jacket it will break and shards will be all over the place... But still the "Rediculous weapon and armor god" would be pleased...

P.S. Imagine a Plate armour with precisly cut obsidian shards in various areas of the plate armor! I mean Find a nicer ceremonial armor that would actually be possible to wear!

 

[tiny lampe]

No matter. They are awsome, they easily catch the "ridiculous, oversized, weapon that would indeed be utterly useless IRL but somehow still good enough ingame" feeling of other RPGs.

Looking at the weapons and armor we've seen so far in the videos I have the impression that BareMettle won't go this route.

I'd still like to see some ridiculous and/or oversized weapons though. You could find them either in the first room of some dungeons (just next to the corpses of their owners) or maybe decorating some gravestones with the epitaph 'killed by your own stupidity'. Maybe something similar could be arranged for skimpy armor.

 

[Stupidity]

Game needs Ghost/Spectral Weapons
Really difficult to get but effectively weightless, gives off light and armor piercing

 

[Zervostyrd]

Looking at the weapons and armor we've seen so far in the videos I have the impression that BareMettle won't go this route.

Yeah, Worded it badly.. I'm actually quite pleased we don't get such. I was always disgusted by the design of weapons and some armor in for example WoW... What I really meant was that it could be a cool, somewhat realistic replacer. It wouldn't serve a greater purpose beyond being cool to look at, or fool a farmer or two into beliving it actually holds great power or something..

 

[Scarecrow]

Even if otherworldly metals were added, it doesn't mean that the designs of the armor and weapons have to be over the top fantasy style. The physics still apply for the weapons and armor, so it still had to be a usable design. Other than that, it might give different colors and such which can be cool, yet not over the top.

I don't think there is anything wrong with just going for real world metals and materials, as it can provide more than enough diversity on it's own. However, when finding a sword made of some unknown and special metal, it might give a better "Wooooow!" feeling. So maybe just adding a couple of otherworldly metals that were a rare and expensive commodity.

 

[Darkzone]

Ulfberht. That is a magic sword of the viking age. The magic was in the art of making it and in the composition and purity of the steel. I think that Sui generis should be more towards this kind of exotic and magical / otherworldly materials / metals. But i have sworn to myself, not to interfer with the decision of the devs.