AI combat proficiency

[Cepheiden]

I recently read about your changes to the AI and the progress you made on it.
However, I wonder if there will be different AI levels based on the type of enemy?
As in a Farmer that picked up a sword will be less experienced and smart in attacking you than a soldier. Maybe not just having more openings but also having clumsier / simpler / slower animations.
Many games make that mistake that every enemy fights you the same way no matter who they are. For example Gothic, even though it was a great game, after getting used to the way people fight, every fight against any human was the same.

This also goes for animals and monsters. Didn't hear anything about them in Sui Generis so far, but I hope they also won't just attack you on sight and have some unique behaviour.

Also while I am on it: I saw that the quality of armor is represented by those dots or half dots. I don't know about the numbers behind that, but it seems a bit restrictive. Restrictive as in not allowing for many different items, since they would all be mostly the same, stat wise. I realize you said this game is not too focused about loot, hence the armor mechanics. However it might be worth considering adding a little bit more flexibility since most people love treasure.

 

[ZaratanCho]

Of course someone who never held a sword will not fight as well as a knight or a warrior. Even in the combat alpha you can see difference between fighters.
Armor is not restrictive, accurate physics and collisions ? This is not an accumulated stat, it just shows relatively how well it can protect against different types of weapons(slashing/crushing etc). Helmet only protects the head, gloves only protect the hands etc clothing/armor only protects the area it covers. Considering you can wear things on top of each other and in many different combinations it is quite awesome(huge variety, both in just looks and practice). Makes every item and combination somewhat different, not the same. What stats do you want ? Other stats make no sense whatsoever. This is core to the game, it works together with other mechanics to create a world that makes sense and be realistic/believable, fake nonsensical stats will have to change everything.
Also considering some procedural stuff concerning clothing/armor etc the variety can be quite vast. Not focused on loot is meant in different way than what you seem to believe. ;d
You should find and read through some updates if you are interested in the AI too much for me to explain, but it is supposed to be quite advanced.
Don't worry about fights being the same in any case. The physics combat makes every fight a little different. Done hundreds of fights and and each one is its own, even in this limited environment that is the combat alpha and the lack of features that are not yet added. Hence you can beat a 'knight' in plate armor wielding a big sword and the next fight get murdered by a skinny guy with a small crappy axe if you don't pay attention.
Maybe watch some videos on BM youtube channel, read updates and understand the basic core, mechanincs and direction of the game, seems to me you haven't seen any videos ? ;d
I'd say your concerns are misplaced, which is good. ;d
Bla bla...

 

[Levon Veldspar]

You have nothing to fear my friend, the AI definitely has variable degrees of skill and the Combat Alpha showcases it very clearly. Different characters with similar equipment can be like night and day. For example, the third fighter is equipped with a Hammer and Shield and can be a little tough at first but is generally pretty easy to beat once you've gotten the hang of the game. Two enemies later in round 5 you face a fighter armed with a Sword and Shield who has built a bit of a reputation for herself as one of the tougher opponents. Though her equipment is of slightly higher quality, its her skill in using it that makes her harder to beat. She simply fights better, smarter.

Its also worth noting that BM seems to be capable of giving the AI what one might call "personality" separate from raw skill. To make another comparison, your opponent in round 4 is a large lad wielding a 2H Battleaxe. He seems to know how to use it, he throws his weight into his swings, maneuvers deliberately to get around your defenses etc. but he he tends to fight conservatively, taking a few swings before falling back and waiting for an opportunity to re-engage and you tailor your own strategy in light of this. In round 7 you face a similarly armed barbarian wielding a 2H Maul and its a whole new story. This guy is relentless, and while he uses the same techniques with roughly equal proficiency in handling his weapon, he comes at you in an almost non-stop assault and you're forced to deal with him very differently.

 

[Madoc]

Yes, AI has very different combat skill levels and play styles. Right now this only concers the way they play, the AI is subject to the same exact rules and controls as a player so it affects tactics, timing, judging distances, reaction times etc. but only at the level of inputs. Even at the highest skill levels AI doesn't cheat, human limitations are built into it. Besides a few minor issues to fix we're quite happy with how this is working, we'll gradually expand on it and once the skill / advancement system is in there will be another layer of proficiencies to differentiate different fighters.


As for armour even the basic stats allow for 15 visible levels of protection against the 3 base damage types and Impact, on top of this you have Coverage, Encumberance and stealth related values. Encumberance and stealth are not fully implemented yet. There's actuallly huge scope for variety and quality there, I would argue that these stats are more meaningful than most stats in RPGs as they all have very important and specific effects.

As mentioned you can also wear a lot of bits of armour at once and they interact meaningfully, you can wear multiple layers and pieces together as long as they fit and the possible combinations will be virtually endless. You will also come across rare special items that may have properties that have nothing to do with these stats, you can think of this like magic items in old school RPGs where they didn't have a bigger list of stats but something that makes them special.

 

[Boothie]

great news madoc definitely happy to hear that there will be pros to not putting as many armourpieces on as possible, currently in combatalpha its a question of robbing every foe of his superiour armour before moving to the next opponent. This is definitely shaping up to be one of those games where i create 150 chars to try every playstyle

 

[Cepheiden]

Thank you for all your replies. I am glad to hear you even thought about all the stuff I mentionend.
Concerning the stats on items, I guess I simply missed the whole picture. I Read the news again after I made my post an realized that there is actually a sensible amount of variety.
I especially appreciate the helpful and straight to the point developer answers.

I only got to watch the last video but from all the things I know so far it seems like this game is going to get just about everything right. I can picture the game somewhere about the same level as Mount&Blade, likely even more popular.

 

[JoshWaldron]

Madoc, I can't over-emphasize my appreciation at you guys not relying on "cheating" to establish AI difficulty levels. It's a lazy way to handle one of the most aspects of the players' interaction and tends to ruin playability because challenges are hard for the wrong reasons, so I'm thrilled at your insistence on doing it legit. It really shows in the combat beta.