Piercing vs Skeleton and Skeleton in general

[Rob]

I'm generally very against guns in games. Bows, yes, especially in the medieval context. But guns are just too modern and take the fun away.

That said, I'm always open to thinking about things. If there are to be any handguns, then they should be inspired by pirates' guns. They should be poor aiming, and reload time should be ridiculously slow.

I think that if siege weapons are to be implemented, then surely the ballista, catapult and trebuchet should be first on the list?! Cannons would probably be a bit out of place and redundant.

 

[BrecMadak]

Within the same set of mind, there should also be the very first kind of trains for travelling such as done in Arcanum. (early 1500s) But as Rob mentioned gunz would have no place in SG.
Btw we have already gone out of topic recently.

 

[Psychomorph]

Btw we have already gone out of topic recently.

Guns and skeletons are closely related.

 

[Bibidibop]

I'm not talking about anything modern though, the most advanced would be a stick with a short cannon on the end, and possibly a way to mechanically lower the slow match. Not even a match lock. The lowest level would be a palm size cannon held in a heavy glove, and lit by slow match by hand. These would be much slower than crossbows, less accurate, but more powerful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_cannon

Handgonne with serpentine; not even a match lock.

All of these are pre-stock, making aiming harder, but it's possible to hit someone past 50 yards. I think the spike hanging off some of them must be for melee. Then again, it could be a rest.

 

[the0thMonkey]

The spike was to absorb recoil. As I'm sure you can imagine the recoil on these would be tremendous. You would definitely need to brace them against something before you fired. I think these were mostly used as siege weapons. Overall, I would definitely be against adding any sort of guns to SG. It would just be silly (and quite possibly immersion breaking).

 

[AW8]

How to tell a bandit from a skeleton:

Skeleton takes 1 more hit to kill, and looks like a skeleton instead of a bandit LOL!!!

But if we try a more logical approach, we should determine how they are undead.
What makes them undead? Some trinket they wear or a magic sphere inside the skull?
Or does the magic controlling them reside inside the bones, so you need to break enough bones to break their curse.

This is a great question. When you face something as weird as a living skeleton, some of the magic is certainly lost if it's nothing more than a recolored bandit.

And considering Sui Generis' focus on physics based combat, it would be great if pierce attacks were completely uneffective against an enemy made completely of bones. Unless the skeleton is actually wearing an enchanted amulet that you manage to destroy or separate from the skeleton with your spear.

 

[Rod_Lightning]

How to tell a bandit from a skeleton:

Skeleton takes 1 more hit to kill, and looks like a skeleton instead of a bandit LOL!!!

This is a great question. When you face something as weird as a living skeleton, some of the magic is certainly lost if it's nothing more than a recolored bandit.

And considering Sui Generis' focus on physics based combat, it would be great if pierce attacks were completely uneffective against an enemy made completely of bones. Unless they are actually wearing an enchanted amulet that you manage to destroy or separate from the skeleton.

I agree.

Man one of the biggest pet peeve is when in action games (like batman Arkham games) you can't actually shove/kick/punch people so they fall over the edge. I just can't wait to force my enemies over the edge of a bridge or something and let them sustain massive fall damage.

And God knows skeletons hate fall damage.

 

[the0thMonkey]

I agree.

Man one of the biggest pet peeve is when in action games (like batman Arkham games) you can't actually shove/kick/punch people so they fall over the edge. I just can't wait to force my enemies over the edge of a bridge or something and let them sustain massive fall damage.

And God knows skeletons hate fall damage.

One of the better points of Skyrim was that you could use unrelenting force to this effect. With more realistic combat, it would've been quite tactical.

 

[AW8]

I agree.

Man one of the biggest pet peeve is when in action games (like batman Arkham games) you can't actually shove/kick/punch people so they fall over the edge. I just can't wait to force my enemies over the edge of a bridge or something and let them sustain massive fall damage.

And God knows skeletons hate fall damage.

Oh yes, I love the Arkham games and have played them to death, I know exactly what you're talking about.
It may look silly, but it does prevent you from breaking that precious no-kill policy of his.

It's possible for enemies to be knocked over the edge in some rare cases though, and oh how I smile after pulling off these "achievements".
Like when I managed to kick a thug into the water and he's lying unconscious on the bottom (because everyone knows human bodies sink): http://screenshot.xfire.com/s/124904752-3.jpg

Knocking a skeleton over the edge with your Force Push-power and see him shatter is going to be satisfying indeed.

One of the better points of Skyrim was that you could use unrelenting force to this effect. With more realistic combat, it would've been quite tactical.

I was just thinking about that, and I would like to add that it's a bit silly how enemies receive the damage when they've stopped moving instead of immediately when they hit the ground.

So if you follow a Forsworn down the hill as he stumbles down, he's going to lie still for a second after he has stopped and then go "UUUuuhhhh..." and die.

Among Skyrim's troubles, this is the least of the problems though.

 

[Rod_Lightning]

Uhu, now in Arkham Asylum there was a special move where you could throw enemies (mainly at other goons). If you're lucky you could throw them through a window butt never off a ledge, invisible walls ftl

But enough about Batman. Let's get back on topic where we discuss Sui Generisman.

 

[AW8]

Uhu, now in Arkham Asylum there was a special move where you could throw enemies (mainly at other goons). If you're lucky you could throw them through a window butt never off a ledge, invisible walls ftl

But enough about Batman. Let's get back on topic where we discuss Sui Generisman.

Psst! Challenge Maps->Freeflow->Sewer Bat
Try to keep your combo going while staying close to one of the railings. Then use the throw move, aim for the edge and try not to laugh as a screaming thug is thrown 20 meters down into the abyss.

...Wait what, "Enough Batman"?

 

[Bibidibop]

The spike was to absorb recoil. As I'm sure you can imagine the recoil on these would be tremendous. You would definitely need to brace them against something before you fired. I think these were mostly used as siege weapons. Overall, I would definitely be against adding any sort of guns to SG. It would just be silly (and quite possibly immersion breaking).

Recoil would be around that of a pistol, but slower, because of the huge relatively heavy stock. These weapons are period appropriate, being contemporary to full plate, both of which are from the 14-15th century.

The tripple barrel was upgraded at some later point to percussion caps; in its original form it would have been touched off by a slow match.

 

[Bibidibop]

Gonnes in relation to Skeletons

You didn't think I would connect, did you?

Gonnes are very high caliber, low accuracy, and high power. The chance to hit the bones of a skeleton, straight on, should be low, maybe 50% if aiming at the chest within a reasonable range, but unlike a crossbow or bow, where a glancing hit would probably cut the bone without shattering the bone (just a guess, since I don't know the effect of these weapons on bone), a bullet, especially such large ones, should shatter bone even with glancing hits. In effect, bows and cross bows versus skeletons might deserve a damage reduction for anything which isn't an optimal hit.

Bones in Relation to the Living

With well modeled skeletons, living characters could have skeletal damage worked into the damage model. That could be really interesting, since it will place nicely into blunt attacks thanks to broken bones.

Instead of making another post, here's another Medieval combat video.

 

[Cooper Holt]

Fightin' stuff

Wow, quite interesting.

 

[Timendo]

I'd like to see skeletons be fragile but re-animate rapidly, and the only way to truly end them, is to find out what/who is causing them to re-animate, like Dark Souls, there are Necromancers re-animating Skeleton corpses in the Catacombs and unless you finish the necromancer, the skeletons will never really die.

Or a shattering blow to their skull with a hammer.

 

[Ickorus]

Bit off-topic (Not so much as Batman and guns, however) but wouldn't it be cool if when you smash a bunch of skeletons the leftover bits could have a chance to reform onto surviving skeletons to turn them into some form of malformed skeletal behemoth. (Wouldn't it be both cool and really creepy to see the bits of skeleton turning into a giant skeletal spider if enough legs are still whole)

Or perhaps skeletons that reform differently when you smash a bit of them off such as an arm reforming where a leg should be if you smash the leg so it can still stand and fight.

Definitely would like to see some different varieties of skeletons too, like ones with extra heads or arms or legs both to provide a sense that they aren't all copy-pasted and of course with more limbs they may cause the player to re-think how they're going to take them on.

Perhaps those are all rather silly and over-complicated ideas for a single type of enemy but a man can dream.

 

[Bibidibop]

Since I've been dropping Medieval combat videos here, here's a great one. Well, it's not Medieval, but it is definitely about swords... Viking swords.

 

[Parco]

hmm, a rare type of swords noone knows the origin of, i like the idea, hope they add this to SG

 

[Conan]

Hey, BigT2themax, I agree, this game needs guns. Actually, having cannon, siege explosives, grenades, and hand cannon would be fantastic. They would all be horribly dangerous to the user, extremely slow, variable, and inaccurate. Though usable by the player, the point would be to face groups of enemies, or have allies, who use these weapons.

I like the idea of having cannons, or at least some catapult. It's really good in terms of preparing for a battle. If you know you are going to face a large group of enemies then you prepare the battleground beforehand by dragging a catapult there (or if you siege a fortress). So you can set off one shot to even the odds or even do some real damage to a very strong opponent.

 

[Bibidibop]

I like the idea of having cannons, or at least some catapult. It's really good in terms of preparing for a battle. If you know you are going to face a large group of enemies then you prepare the battleground beforehand by dragging a catapult there (or if you siege a fortress). So you can set off one shot to even the odds or even do some real damage to a very strong opponent.

That would be cool, because Medieval cannon were horrible. They had no wheels, no way to raise them except by piling dirt underneath, the powder was garbage, as were the shot. That unwieldiness as the cost for the power would make it amazing for setting ambushes, but there would absolutely have to be draft animals and carts.

It would probably work better as a fixed weapon you can find on battlefields, and if lucky you could use it.