About the camera, the walls, and how it made me put The Witcher 3 on pause for a while

gtabro

Member
Hello to the devs and the community,

I've been playing Exanima since 28 July 2015. Decided to come and share my experience with it so far. I will start with the positives - first off, I can't believe something made me stop playing The Witcher 3, as I've been into that universe for the past 2 months, and I mean I was not playing anything else... until I saw Exanima on Twitch by accident. The game is also my first Early Access game, as I am not exactly the biggest fan of this practice, but as Dark Souls is my favourite game, buying this was a no-brainer. And I can say no other game since DS has recreated that mysterious and challenging gameplay, so I cannot be happier to have found this. And yet another first - I rarely play arena/ waves of enemies modes in games, but I think at this point half my time has been spent in Exanima's arena, although I wish the place was a bit brighter, but the supposedly coming outdoor arenas might be what I'm looking for. Great physics on the hair as well btw! So fun to have varied situations where the possibilities are not dependent on the pre-set scenarios, but on moving objects freely. The mechanic of making a room invisible when you close the door to it is actually quite logical and when chased by... the zombies? Undead? ... it creates quite the tension since I don't know if they will still be there. Also - the mobs are not always attacking unless provoked - another new (or at least super rare) thing I'd like to see in more games as it adds some suspense to the experience. All in all I am enjoying the game quite a lot (especially for an unfinished product).

And now a few things I would love to see improved in the near future:

1. Definitely needs way more zoom because the colour of the items is quite similar to the background (shelves, tables). I personally can't play the dungeon for more than an hour because the tiny items searching causes eye-strain and I believe making people have to stop playing your game because they physically can't is probably the last thing you want to do. 1080p is available on many laptops nowadays and in even on a 17" one this makes for super small details. Would love to come closer to my character in the arena too. Did I mention it needs more zoom?

2. The cursor is too dark - the dark red can blend way too well in both arena and the dungeon - and the fact that you have to
1) swing fast to get good timing and actually hit before you get blocked, and
2) constantly move the mouse differently to swing the weapon unless your thumb is glued to the space bar during combat
means that the player is constantly losing precise control and have to go on cursor hunt instead of playing the game, and this is what people partly meant by "wrestling the controls". Giving us the option to choose its colour will be excellent, I know I'll make mine bright yellow or electric green so I can always see it.

3. The controls - please for the love of Exanima hear me out - yes, we understand it is meant to be played without moving the camera too much. I am 12+ hours in and it's still not intuitive and I have been playing games for 15 years now and have NEVER had so much trouble with game controls, so do one very simple thing - Control Schemes! Since you've tried it, just leave the code there. If a stubborn company like Apple can realise that one size doesn't fit all, then so can you. Want people to get the idea of fighting with a static camera? Easy! Make the combat tutorial using your controls - the ones you believe are the best - and I don't mind if you even put a message "Hey player, if you use the alternative controls, you will totally suck. Do you want that you n00b?" in the end of the tutorial, but give the people ways to enjoy this otherwise great game without having them go to university to get a degree in Mastering Different Controls.
Just last night I managed to beat the Novice arena and I tried really hard not to keep pressing the space bar. And then the expert arena came, where I wrestled the tiny and overly dark room("Am I swinging? Where is the other guy? Is my computer even on?" was going through my mind when I was in the top right corner) more than the opponents (I beat the first 3 on my first try so the combat was not the problem), but rather something else...

4. ...The walls in the game - listen, I am not a fan of disappearing walls in games either because usually you can see them well lit from every angle, but in Exanima unless you are seeing the "face" of the wall, it's black. And I would choose (again talking about Exanima specifically) the camera NOT going top-down next to a wall rather than not making the walls disappear when seen isometrically any day of the week, because, you know, unless you are making a flight simulator for the military, you want to let people have some fun, even with simulator-like games.

I will not comment on the current content, I can see you want to get the gameplay right first and then add the details and I cannot support this enough. To sum up - don't get mad at the people that write negative things (except for the ones that played for 50 minutes and asked for a refund, those quite obviously did not get how deep this rabbit hole goes :D ), but the fact people that are giving you positive reviews on Steam (and this comes from us having played your game for dozens of hours, and not from looking at videos and screenshots) are also mentioning things from the negative feedback should tell you that maybe, juuuuuust maybe there are a few things that can be done slightly differently.

Oh, and good work on the footwork changes since the release, that lead to more believable and tight combat. Good luck and don't be afraid to take a small break from working on your game every once in a while, and then come back with a fresh mind and see if everything feels as right as you want it to be.

Meanwile I'll be keeping an eye on everything Exanima/Sui Generis-related while spreading the word ;)
 

Nahkuri

Member
Agreed about the zoom. I get eye strain even in the arena. I can't think of any reason why the player should not be allowed to zoom in closer, aside from maybe hiding some fine graphical imperfections that would become apparent only when zoomed in.

As for the controls, I kinda agree. The current controls aren't terrible. I managed to grasp them, even though I don't personally own the game and can only play it at a friend's place who lives nearby. It was a hell of an arduous process, but I did it. How? Well, by holding down the space bar until I was familiar enough with the character movement to be able to play with the "normally".

I once suggested an optional pseudo-3rd person mode that would essentially be as if you just hold down the space bar. Turning your mouse would turn your character, but the cursor would be free to move vertically. While this wouldn't, according to the devs, give the player as fine control over the character as the game normally does now, it certainly makes the game easier to play and approach for new players. Players, who likely would move to the normal camera/controls mode once they knew how to fight an opponent without repeatedly getting confused over how to face him.

EDIT: Another controls related thing that I cannot stress enough is that the game needs an alternate(optional) scheme for attack controls. The current system to perform a LTR swing just feels wonky to me, even though I could reliably pull them off the last time I played. A mappable button for LTR swing would make the combat so, so much more enjoyable for me. The lack of such is in fact the only reason why I haven't bought this game myself yet.
 
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gtabro

Member
You make good points, to be honest I would really like to see Chivalry (Medieval Warfare)'s control scheme applied here, it works great there and by that I mean it allows for a lot of trick and precision maneuvers, the view will not be as cinematic as it is now, but will be definitely feel more familiar to more people, I for example started losing track of my character's position in the expert arena due to fact I am 99% concentrated on the the enemy and even though I started feeling somewhat OK with the current controls, these situations make me sometimes lose my focus and I start moving intuitively rather than with respect to the mouse... which lead to my merciless slaughter. :D
 

gtabro

Member
[Further feedback after 5 more hours playing arenas]
Why the controls are not as perfect as the dev might think - on the expert arena there are 2 enemies with short weapons and shields. As shields are still super OP (impenetrable) the best strategy is the to use the left to right swing. The problem the cursor ALSO tells your guy where to look at and quite often the LtR swing goes somewhere around the target. I feel like a (slight) change in the controls is not optional at this point, it is necessary.
Also another imbalanced thing - the expert knight with the super long 2H sword goes from swing to defend unrealistically fast which feels a bit cheap with this massive weapon.
 
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