One handed sword speed.

Nynuc

Insider
I feel like it's way too slow. Two handed swords are pretty accurate in how fast they are. They're pretty much just as fast as one handed swords. I feel like every time I die in the arena, it's to the long sword guy. Only because he swings just as fast and has way more reach. I remember Madoc once posting about how it was slowed down, because it took some of the magic out of the game. But why?
 

Iscandar

Member
Definitely agree here. 2h swords out-reach and out-damage 1h swords, and often provide a better defense to boot. 1h swords feel like lesser weapons, rather than a viable alternative.
 

Greenbrog

Insider
1 handed swords have amazing speed and recovery time. But it's a very different play style. I love bating everything into attacking and using the amazing attack speed to punish basically everything. Don't get me wrong the 2 handed sword is probably the strongest set of attributes in the game atm. But a one handed sword can definitely stay both inside and outside a two-handers reach easily. But against people, whom knows. I personally like both. Against the comp i like the 2 hander a bit more against enemies with one handers, and just bully them and push them around, and I prefer the one hander against 2 handed weapons to be more nimble and able to choose when I body up or evade and attack at will. In the arena I do about equally as well with them.
 

Nynuc

Insider
1 handed swords have amazing speed and recovery time. But it's a very different play style. I love bating everything into attacking and using the amazing attack speed to punish basically everything. Don't get me wrong the 2 handed sword is probably the strongest set of attributes in the game atm. But a one handed sword can definitely stay both inside and outside a two-handers reach easily. But against people, whom knows. I personally like both. Against the comp i like the 2 hander a bit more against enemies with one handers, and just bully them and push them around, and I prefer the one hander against 2 handed weapons to be more nimble and able to choose when I body up or evade and attack at will. In the arena I do about equally as well with them.
The speed should definitely be increased though. If all other weapons are going to be realistic, may as well make the one handed sword realistic too. This becomes more apparent when you fight more skilled opponents in the expert arena, because every little bit of time it takes to swing is a huge difference, and right now I don't feel like the one handed sword makes up for its short reach and little to no armor penetration.
 

Bullethead

Member
The speed should definitely be increased though. If all other weapons are going to be realistic, may as well make the one handed sword realistic too. This becomes more apparent when you fight more skilled opponents in the expert arena, because every little bit of time it takes to swing is a huge difference, and right now I don't feel like the one handed sword makes up for its short reach and little to no armor penetration.
Relatively speaking, the 1-handed sword is faster in the game than the 2-handed sword. It's slower than in real life but then so is the 2-handed sword, so that's a wash. There are 2 reasons for this slowness. First is, due to the nature of this being a video game instead of real life, you have to slow things down for controlability. Second, of course, is that the game used a whole-arm swing animation which is inherently slower than the more realistic mechanic of using mostly the wrist and elbow and not much shoulder. But OTOH the 2-handed sword is swung like a baseball bat instead of also mostly using the wrists and elbows as in real life, so again that's a wash.

I personally don't think the 1-handed sword should be a "viable alternative" to the 2-handed sword in all situations. There's a reason the nobility, the professional warrior class, largely stopped using 1-handed swords for several centuries and instead used the mostly 2-handed longsword (shorter than the 2-handed sword in Exanima, which I would call a greatsword). At that point in history, the longsword was the more effective general-purpose weapon, able to deal with knights and peasants alike.

Remember, the 1-handed sword isn't a good can-opener. It's light and while flicking it around with the wrist might be fast, that speed comes at the expense of power. Amongst professionals, the 1-handed sword only came back into vogue after guns started reducing the amount of armor on the battlefield, so that there were more viable target areas for the lighter, faster swords.
 

Nynuc

Insider
Relatively speaking, the 1-handed sword is faster in the game than the 2-handed sword. It's slower than in real life but then so is the 2-handed sword, so that's a wash. There are 2 reasons for this slowness. First is, due to the nature of this being a video game instead of real life, you have to slow things down for controlability. Second, of course, is that the game used a whole-arm swing animation which is inherently slower than the more realistic mechanic of using mostly the wrist and elbow and not much shoulder. But OTOH the 2-handed sword is swung like a baseball bat instead of also mostly using the wrists and elbows as in real life, so again that's a wash.

I personally don't think the 1-handed sword should be a "viable alternative" to the 2-handed sword in all situations. There's a reason the nobility, the professional warrior class, largely stopped using 1-handed swords for several centuries and instead used the mostly 2-handed longsword (shorter than the 2-handed sword in Exanima, which I would call a greatsword). At that point in history, the longsword was the more effective general-purpose weapon, able to deal with knights and peasants alike.

Remember, the 1-handed sword isn't a good can-opener. It's light and while flicking it around with the wrist might be fast, that speed comes at the expense of power. Amongst professionals, the 1-handed sword only came back into vogue after guns started reducing the amount of armor on the battlefield, so that there were more viable target areas for the lighter, faster swords.
The only problem is that the speed currently isn't anything significant for it. All other weapons have their strengths, but the one handed sword is basically a terrible decision if you have any other alternative because of this. I don't believe that should be the case. The one handed sword should have a clear speed advantage over other weapons as it should. But the most balanced sword in game is not that much faster then any other weapon at the moment.
 

NachoDawg

Member
Playing off of @Bullethead 's point about the 2handed swords being good against pesants and knights alike, the longer sword is just better in most fighting situations.

Maybe there's a point in looking at why people brought back the 1hander when armors were reduced? I think it's mostly a matter of logistics. A 1hander is smaller and easier to carry and cheaper to produce. You only need 1 hand to use it. It goes on your belt or in your backpack without taking as much space as a large weapon, and all this "easier to bring with you" stuff means that the 1handed swords symbolic value (A tool for threatening, or an officer's sword for example) can be utilized easier.

So with all that in mind, maybe the 1handed sword can bring things to the table that the 2hander can't.


All that aside, yes, I think it should swing faster too. Simply for the gameified logic of "small weapons are faster than big weapons".
 

Bullethead

Member
The only problem is that the speed currently isn't anything significant for it. All other weapons have their strengths, but the one handed sword is basically a terrible decision if you have any other alternative because of this. I don't believe that should be the case. The one handed sword should have a clear speed advantage over other weapons as it should. But the most balanced sword in game is not that much faster then any other weapon at the moment.
Well, in real life, there's really not that much difference in speed between them. See here:


There are several things to note here:

First and most important, these guys are fighting under the assumption that neither is wearing armor. This is because modern medieval fencing is based on old fencing manuals which were mostly about unarmored fighting, as was common in duels and of course street brawls. This is the only reason the longsword guy acknowledges most of the rapier guy's hits. All the protective gear is just for safety---they're using steel training swords that are easily capable of breaking bones even though dull. If longsword guy was in armor, none of the rapier cuts and few of the thrusts would have done anything, and none hit hard enough to rattle his brains.

Second, this is a longsword, not a greatsword like the Exanima 2-hander. But as you can see, there is little difference in speed, and not much more with a greatsword.

Third, note that the rapier guy stands sideways and does most of his actions with his wrist and elbow. That's where the 1-hander's speed comes from.

Finally, note that most of rapier guy's attacks are thrusts, which are WAY faster than swings. When that becomes available in Exanima, then perhaps your perception of 1-h vs. 2-h will change. Although note that longsword guy started using a lot more thrusts himself towards the end, and they were fast enough that rapier guy couldn't stop them.
 

Nynuc

Insider
Well, in real life, there's really not that much difference in speed between them. See here:


There are several things to note here:

First and most important, these guys are fighting under the assumption that neither is wearing armor. This is because modern medieval fencing is based on old fencing manuals which were mostly about unarmored fighting, as was common in duels and of course street brawls. This is the only reason the longsword guy acknowledges most of the rapier guy's hits. All the protective gear is just for safety---they're using steel training swords that are easily capable of breaking bones even though dull. If longsword guy was in armor, none of the rapier cuts and few of the thrusts would have done anything, and none hit hard enough to rattle his brains.

Second, this is a longsword, not a greatsword like the Exanima 2-hander. But as you can see, there is little difference in speed, and not much more with a greatsword.

Third, note that the rapier guy stands sideways and does most of his actions with his wrist and elbow. That's where the 1-hander's speed comes from.

Finally, note that most of rapier guy's attacks are thrusts, which are WAY faster than swings. When that becomes available in Exanima, then perhaps your perception of 1-h vs. 2-h will change. Although note that longsword guy started using a lot more thrusts himself towards the end, and they were fast enough that rapier guy couldn't stop them.
I see what you mean, And those are some great points. Although I do believe the rapier was much faster, with the thrusts which was the man on the lefts go-to move against a long sword. Maybe it's just my own skill that needs improving before I can find a weakness in the long-sword. But I feel as if it's pointless to keep practicing with the one handed sword because it's simply a bad choice.

That being said I do hope they increase the speed, if only slightly. As much as I love authenticity, I also believe in balance in SG/Exanima. It'd be a shame to do PVP arenas with polearms and greatswords only. I also hope rapiers and Bastard swords are introduced with new animations and styles of fighting with one handed and two handed swords to mix it up.
 

Nynuc

Insider
Also, Here's a video of both swords of the same balance swinging.


Hairy little fight at the end there.
 

Bullethead

Member
Also, Here's a video of both swords of the same balance swinging
It appears to me that all weapons move during the swing at about the same speed, the difference in "speed" being more of a "rate of fire" thing. That is, the "faster" weapons have less delay between one attack and the next, and less delay between when you push the button and the animation starting.
 
2h sword is just 1h sword with longer handle and of ten blade.
But example of bastard swords and longswords shows that 1 weapon can be used as 2h and 1h weapon with no problems. 2h swords have advantage of better grip and lever(between hands) so it is rather normal that the same sword will be faster in 2 hands that in one.

How devs balance certain types of swords stat wise is totally up to them.

If that topic is about wich class is stronger... well is totally too early to talk about that.
Multiple reasons, fight scenario situation ect.
1h weapons with shield can be really good against ranged weapons that we don't have in game yet(in exanima at least)
Also shorter weapons can be way better during fights in tight places.
I am more than sure that 1h weapons will have more versatility than 2h.

also there is no stab animation in game yet and well that can be interesting change.
 
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