Suggestion: Staff-Fighting For 2-Handed Weapons

Bullethead

Member
I think it would be nice of users of 2-handed weapons had the ability to hold them more centrally and strike with either end, rather than always swinging like a baseball bat with both hands down near the butt. You know, using it more like a quarterstaff or bayonetted rifle. From what I understand, this was commonly done back in the day, allowing spears and the shorter pole arms (and even 2-handed swords) to be used at closer quarters and in more confined spaces, and also making them more responsive for parrying.
 

Faelivrin

Insider
I think there is going to be more combat stances. When you are proficient with the sword skill, you will be able to make another different less noobish and more pro looking stance. But don't quote me in this.
 

Bullethead

Member
I think there is going to be more combat stances. When you are proficient with the sword skill, you will be able to make another different less noobish and more pro looking stance. But don't quote me in this.
It's not so much a stance, it's totally holding the weapon and using it in a different way, like how you use a bayonetted rifle today. All kinda cool stuff you can do with a relatively short pole arm. The vid below shows it all in slow motion but this is, as far as I can tell, how you really used short polearms back in the day, instead of doing baseball swings.



For swords, you also have a lot more options than just hack and slash.


And in fact the hacking and slashing wasn't really the thing, it was more twists of the wrists and reversals of the hands to swing the tip of the blade very rapidly without moving the arms so much.

 

Tony

Insider
The devs are aware of all of this. The issue isn't them not knowing how weapons were realistically used, the issue is how do you translate this into gameplay that is easy to control with only a few button presses and which doesn't require thousands of animations for all of the special maneuvers with each weapon type? Currently their solution is to make all weapons have the same basic attacks so players automatically know what they can and can't do and it's simple to control with only a few key presses.

In this particular case it's a matter of gameplay being more important than realism.
 

Bullethead

Member
I agree that the wrist-twisting strikes with the 1-handed and 1.5-handed swords would require a different control system. So forget that. However, seems to me you can use the same game commands to trigger different sets of attack animations appropriate to the weapon being used. Maybe add just 1 command to switch grips (which would then use a different set of attack animations) if that's possible for the weapon and if the character has learned the technique.

Thus, if you have a short polearm (bill, warhammer, spear, or expedient things like cage bars), the default animations would have you holding the thing centrally. RtL attack would be with the butt, LtR would be with the head, and it would use the stab with the double-click instead of the overhead. And that's it. No different command-wise from what we have now except the weapon now moves as it should and is useful in confined spaces.

With a 2-handed sword or battleaxe, its default would be as now. But if you learn the technique, you can tap a key to switch grip, in which case it works like a short polearm as above.

With a 1-handed sword, its default is as now but it would be switched to half-sword if you know that technique and don't have a shield. When in half-sword mode, its animations would be like a normal 2-handed sword except you're holding it by the blade and it does impact and mayby piece damage instead of slashing.

Other 1-handed weapons (mace, tomahawk, etc.) and long polearms (glaive, etc.) remain as now with no optional modes.

Anyway, seems to me something like this would be a nice addition to the game without requiring major changes to the overall command system.
 

Tony

Insider
Great suggestions, Bullethead! Adding additional grips or weapon holds that utilize the current control scheme would be great. Madoc has mentioned adding different stances (a more aggressive/defensive stance that would change your attacks and how you moved) so your suggestions would compliment that nicely.
 

Bullethead

Member
Glad you like. I hope all you Insiders discuss such things with the devs and see what can be done. It just bugs me to see a bill swung like a baseball bat. I only do that with my own bill when using it as an axe. But for most applications, a central hold (with blade either up or down) works a lot better.

NOTE: That isn't from fighitng with a bill. I use mine for its original purpose of clearing underbrush and pruning trees. Bills are still made and sold in rural hardware stores and online (under the modern names of "ditch blade" or "brush hook") for this.
 
Glad you like. I hope all you Insiders discuss such things with the devs and see what can be done. It just bugs me to see a bill swung like a baseball bat. I only do that with my own bill when using it as an axe. But for most applications, a central hold (with blade either up or down) works a lot better.

NOTE: That isn't from fighitng with a bill. I use mine for its original purpose of clearing underbrush and pruning trees. Bills are still made and sold in rural hardware stores and online (under the modern names of "ditch blade" or "brush hook") for this.
That is like a Guandao
 

Bullethead

Member
That is like a Guandao
Yeah, the Chinese "bill" is very similar although apparently not derived from an agricultural implement. Still, I'd definitely hire this guy for ditch blade work on my property---most of his moves here are what you use when clearing brush, just speeded up a lot and with some added flourishes :).

 
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