The grand inventory thread

[Rod_Lightning]

What do you guys love and hate the most about the current inventory system?

Obviously it's still a WIP with weight and encumbrance being implemented in the future (or so I think) but let's start a small discussion.

The number one complaint people have atm is the inventory becoming cluttered and packed because they are all hoarders (lol). However this will become a valid complaint once the game expands in scope and you'll have a reason to carry more stuff around. Would people like to see multiple tabs to put items in? So people can categorize as they please?

Something I think is missing are containers, belts and backpacks in the game itself that are both visual representation (cosmetic) and would also function as extra carrying capacity (in the form of extra tabs perhaps). I can't remember exactly but perhaps this is already the plan for SG and is still yet to come in one form or another.

What are your thoughts? How can we preserve the current Ultima inspired system without being too much of a hassle as you play the game for a long period?

 

[J.G. Elmslie]

I posted recently about the belt item, which I'll copy-paste here, as one solution I'd like to see implemented.

(3) Inventory: Carried items
Clothing Item: Belt.

It strikes me as rather daft that a belt has a tiny bit of protection/coverage, but takes the same slot as an entire waistcoat/harness at the moment.
Currently, the carried items interface is rather poor, its often messy. I pity the pack-rat players who want to collect and hoard everything, trying to stuff it all in there, layers and layers of stuff. This will inevitably become a far bigger issue in SG, too.

So... What if a belt instead added a second, smaller, narrower inventory space, that small items can be put into, just below the current inventory area?
Now, to implement that and improve the gameplay with it, have that new inventory remain available without having to open the full inventory. Its just sits there unobtrusively in-game, in the bottom corner of the screen.

With such an area, you could use that for quick access to items - to tuck a key into your belt, or to have a healing vial to hand, or maybe later on, for a bandage or lock-picks, for example. Approach a door, and there's no fiddling with inventories to select the key - just a simple double-click on the inventory area, and then on the door, and the key which you had in your belt gets used.

In this way, the belt becomes a useful item to wear, it contributes to the immersion in-game without diving into the inventory for menial items. If you wanted, for gameplay purposes, you could keep it as the same slot as the waistcoat/harness type garments, like it is now, and you've got a perfect example of players having to make a choice - an extra layer of protection, or convenient access to tools and equipment.

 

[ShaolinG]

In general I like inventory in current state, but I absolutely agree with J.G. Elmslie about belts. Second thing I wish to be added is hotkeys for weapon sets. I think it would greatly change game experience if you could hit one button and character will drop torch and draw out his 2h sword or sword+shield. I think it's not so unrealistic to harm the game.

 

[Elaxter]

I like how simple the inventory system is, but I don't like that you can carry a whole host of different things. There should be at least some sort of limitation on what you can carry. I know that it can 'hurt' gameplay, but these types of limitations need to happen to constrict the player so he isn't carrying the right tool for the job every time he steps in a dungeon. There should be a "do I pick the spear of the sword and shield?" moment. The immersion factor is there, too!

We don't know how dungeons and travel are going to work in Sui Generis. There could be a wagon that your character can buy so that you can tote all your gear in, and when you're about to go into a dungeon you select the gear you want. Not only would it be very immersive, it would put a goal into the laps of the player. "I want a wagon to carry my loot." And along side that, the player can employ guards to watch over the loot whilst he goes inside a castle or dungeon so that he doesn't lose a majority of his gold crowns to Pesky Larry the Bandit of the East.

The idea for the belt is fantastic for small things. I don't want my character carrying a polearm, a two-hander, a torch, a machete, a bow, a shield, and a dozen keys on a leather belt.

 

[tiny lampe]

It's worth mentioning that the devs have been considering an overhaul of the inventory system that would get rid of the paper doll and that would allow the player to equip/remove items by simply dragging them to the character/ from the character. In this new inventory system, more zoom would be available to make modifying the character's equipment and interacting with small objects easier.

Personally I like this new inventory system very much because it means getting read of an unnecessary middle man (the paper doll) and it allows us to interact with our characters directly. This is both simpler and more intuitive.

Some suggestions I'd like to make on this new inventory system:

1. No button to access 'inventory mode'. As long as we are not in combat we should be able to simply drag items to our character/remove items from our character directly.

2. No storage unless special items are found. Right now, it is possible to keep items without having them equipped. I think this is a functionality that should only be available after having found a backpack or some similar container.

3. As @J.G. Elmslie said, it would be very nice if equipping a belt allowed us to hotkey certain items (health potions...) or weapons (side weapons).

4. Decoupling zoom from the inventory system. I think more zoom should be available both in combat and outside of it. It certainly has advantages in both cases: more easily seeing what an opponent is doing in 1vs1 fights and more easily finding small items when exploring. I think it would be a pity to restrict the extra zoom to only the exploration mode.

 

[J.G. Elmslie]

I'm getting tempted to start drawing concept art.

This is a really bad move, isnt it?

 

[Nahkuri]

If we're going to have the clutter inventory a'la Ultima Underworld, pouches and bags are a must. I'd still prefer an inventory system based on item slots.

 

[the_grim]

I understand an infinite "bag of holding" is a necessary trope in many RPGs - it's simply frustrating to the player to have to limit their inventory based on some "realistic" values. It could very well work in Exanima / SG's case though: at least in Exanima you don't really need to carry eg. multiple two-handed weapons or a variety of spare clothes; hoarders just do that because it's possible.

In games like Skyrim there's a weight limit in your inventory that somewhat mimics realism. Your character can still carry 600 arrows and several thousand gold coins (money usually has no weight in these games), as well as multiple one-handed and two-handed weapons (because the weight limit is generous in order to not frustrate players).

I would be delighted to see a slightly more realistic system where you can't just put a flaming torch in your pocket - it's either in your hand or it's in the game world. Same goes for weapons: one-handed weapons could be carried on your hip (provided you have a sheath), and two-handed weapons would have to be always carried on your shoulder (that would add an extra layer of consideration whether you really want to carry a cumbersome weapon with you at all times). Although it's nice to keep a sledgehammer, a bill and a two-handed sword in my inventory just in case I feel like a different fighting style at some point, it's by no means necessary and a more restrictive inventory system regarding large items would increase immersion.

I'm willing to sacrifice some realism in the amount of small items that can be carried in your "pockets" (eg. keys), but a pouch/backpack system for storing additional stuff would be nice too. Since clothing and armour doesn't wear or break (at the moment at least), I don't think it's necessary at all to be able to keep spare clothes in your inventory. This changes when the stealth/disguise system is implemented, though.

 

[queen's_gambit]

The Dusty Log Book would make a great in-game notebook and for simple maps MSPaint style.
Requires use at a lecturn, or with a pencil, and with limited pages.

Maybe a book binder to condense scrolls.

 

[nrage]

In general I like inventory in current state, but I absolutely agree with J.G. Elmslie about belts. Second thing I wish to be added is hotkeys for weapon sets. I think it would greatly change game experience if you could hit one button and character will drop torch and draw out his 2h sword or sword+shield. I think it's not so unrealistic to harm the game.

I like/agree with the hotkey drop and draw idea but not for 2 handed weapons. Realistically there is no way to sheathe a 2 handed weapon - historically (I believe) they were kept on a horse, cart, squire, or held in one hand over the shoulder etc. So, for a 2 handed weapon outside combat mode they should be in one hand over the shoulder, allowing a torch in the 2nd hand. Entering combat would automatically drop the torch, just like a quick draw hotkey would.

 

[-Tim-]

The Dusty Log Book would make a great in-game notebook and for simple maps MSPaint style.
Requires use at a lecturn, or with a pencil, and with limited pages.

Maybe a book binder to condense scrolls.

Gah, I love in-game notebooks. I would be absolutely ecstatic if we could use logbooks and the like as our own notebooks (even better with both a text editor and a very simplistic free paint feature). This also adds a great way to store/write down your own discovered lore and other game information in a 'natural' way while keeping UI and menu navigation to a minimum.

 

[ShaolinG]

I like/agree with the hotkey drop and draw idea but not for 2 handed weapons. Realistically there is no way to sheathe a 2 handed weapon - historically (I believe) they were kept on a horse, cart, squire, or held in one hand over the shoulder etc. So, for a 2 handed weapon outside combat mode they should be in one hand over the shoulder, allowing a torch in the 2nd hand. Entering combat would automatically drop the torch, just like a quick draw hotkey would.

Well, I was talking about convenience and usability, not about realism) now you can carry 10 axes, 10 swords, few shields and it will not be visually displayed on character)

 

[the_grim]

Hotkeys for quick weapon equips would be great. Now it's kind of a pain to switch weapons when you run into an enemy, I've often gotten myself wounded when trying to equip my shield or two-handed sword (since inventory automatically disengages you from combat mode). Number keys for customizable weapons combinations (press 1 for sword+torch, 2 for sword+shield) would make readying for combat situations much more fluid.

So, for a 2 handed weapon outside combat mode they should be in one hand over the shoulder, allowing a torch in the 2nd hand. Entering combat would automatically drop the torch, just like a quick draw hotkey would.

This +1!!

 

[Eluem]

About Inventory:

I really like the idea of having extremely limited and simulated inventory. I like the restrictions to what you'd be able to do in terms of character customization and game balance. However, even with out a visible back pack, I wouldn't mind having a small amount of hammer space for spare clothing (for disguises) though I guess that's not necessary either.

It'd be pretty cool to have to carry a back pack with your disguise, switch, put all your valuables in a bag and hide it.. then sneak around and sneak out... hopefully no one finds your loot.

I'm very much AGAINST the idea of having the ability to quickly switch your weapons multiple times to multiple different things in combat. I like players being forced to decide how they'll fight. Maybe switching between a 2h sword and a sword and shield (where they had the sword on their hip and a shield on their back) or something would be fine... but I don't like the idea of switching through several different loadouts like players can in Dark Souls using inventory menu swapping (normally they can only have 2-3 loadouts depending on which game you're playing)



As far as 2 handed swords, there actually were backscabbard things, but they were toss aways. People would sometimes carry a 2h sword in a back pouch, but it was usually retrieved a bit before combat and then the back strap would be tossed to the side until the fighting is done or strapped back to you so you can use it later. It didn't allow for any form of quickdraw though.

I could see a system with a backslot existing and you can stick a shield there, a backpack, or any other carrying device or other thing that could fit there. If you decide to carry a 2h sword on your back, you'd free your hands up, and maybe it'd fit under a backpack, but retrieving it wouldn't be quick. you'd retrieve it before you get into combat.

About Zoom as stated tiny lampe:

I really like the idea of limiting how much you can zoom and when. I don't like the idea of zooming in or out during combat or really too much at all with the scroll wheel except during certain times. I prefer using the zoom, in addition to fog of war, as a sort of focus mechanic. During combat, you're focused on exactly what is around you.. you want to focus on enough around you to be safe but enough on the combat to see what you're doing. When you're exploring you can expand your focus.. or when you click on an object or an area you can see.. you'll focus in on it and zoom to it.. here you can zoom in and out a bit to focus more or less on it.


I think it's important to implement a system like that, especially with regards to combat or else you end up with a situation where it's *ideal* to zoom all the way out all the time for maximum awareness but it'll be less fun because you can see less.. but a skilled player should always be max zoomed out so they always have maximum awareness.

Those are just some random ideas.

 

[dentistguba]

I do like the idea of using the character directly as a visual inventory, maybe with double click on something like a backpack to open. I guess cycling through all items in the pack from large to small would be realistic but maybe annoying, could allow you to search through only one type (e.g. keys) to be more intuitive.

 

[Don Kanaille]

Wow, I really like where this thread is going!

- restricted space which makes choices matter and increases believability
-> can be increased a bit with belts, pouches and backpacks
- thinking about where you put what on your character (which weapon in your hand, on your belt, what on your back etc.)
- no warp-in-quickswitch; instead drop and draw
- a need to store and transport your other valuabes which leads to further immersion in the game world, like Elaxter´s example

 

[Bobob]

I actually hate limited inventories, but hopefully it could work here since there's not a lot of stuff to take.

 

[Don Kanaille]

Limited inventories are welcome in games where you are rewarded for taking everything with you that is not bolted down. If you keep in mind that your game is not supposed to have an infinite bag of holding, I´m optimistic you can design it in a way that the limited inventory does not feel restrictive.

It can even be a great relieve if you don´t have to micromanage hundreds of items because you need to focus on what´s important. I´m really not a fan of trash looting, but still do it in games where that stuff gets you money or material for some reason - despite the fact that it is just not engaging. A game which is designed from the start to not include loot hoarding has good chances you won´t miss this "feature".

 

[Bobob]

Maybe not in this game but potentially in the full game where we don't really know what will be lootable this could be too restricting.

 

[Eluem]

Maybe not in this game but potentially in the full game where we don't really know what will be lootable this could be too restricting.

Another interesting option is a one way bag of holding. I.e. something that warps your stuff to some sort of magical bank vault that you need to go back to to view/retrieve from. There might be some cost to using it as well (so you don't just shove everything in the world into it). The idea here is that you're still restricted on what you can bring with you.. but not so much on what you can collect (books and cool gear and such).

I like the idea of full loot/not getting to carry every single tool in the world with me.