What kind of stealth system would you like to see?

[Nynuc]

In games, I usually go for the stealth approach. I think hiding behind crates, and being able to duck down and sneak would be an awesome implementation. Especially for those who cannot get the hang of the combat system, it might be in their best interests to master the stealth game.

Things that would be awesome

-Hugging walls
-Crouching behind boxes, chest high walls
-Throat slitting
-Interrogations
-Hiding spots
-some kind of line of sight system, like project zomboid

 

[Don Kanaille]

One of the things we already saw, and which I am really fond of, is disguises. Either by wearing some factiion specific outfit or generally by looking unsuspicious (no, a hood and a cape and hiding from everyone is not unsuspicious. A peasant´s outfit, a basket full of vegetables and casually chatting with guards is).

I´m also taking a guess and say that there will be thaumaturgy to enhance stealth, maybe by reducing visibility or at least by granting an alternate form of movement, like teleportation (which is already in the trailers).


What I´d hate to see is rolling from cover to cover, but given Madoc´s stance on rolling this is rather unlikely in the first place :3

 

[Parco]

considering npc's got the same controls as we do i also guess they got the same visual range/capability as we do. so i guess hiding behind stuff right beside them and stuff like that wont work. being behind an open door can work as the npc or player cant see into the other room if not close enough.
as don said alot of stealth might mostly be disguises and use of thaumaturgy i would guess, light thaumaturgy for most part i would guess or even mind thaumaturgy (these are not the thaumaturges youre looking for).

 

[Elaxter]

I think NPCs might have to be at a disadvantage for this to work. What they could do is distinguish between non-combat and combat sight. For example:

In this diagram, the player and the enemy are interchangeable. If the player/enemy is not in combat with the enemy/player, the player/enemy is slightly transparent to the enemy/player. This would represent a number of things, namely sound and the 'spidey senses.' But as soon as both parties are locked in combat, this transparency is gone. A third party who is not in combat is transparent with an added stealth bonus because of conditions. The stealth skill of the character determines how transparent they are, and perhaps a counter-skill (like perception or alertness) will make them less transparent or even completely visible.

I hope this make sense.

 

[Mikodzi]

So, anyone can share some light on stealth skills - will we see those or they are not in plan?

 

[Minq]

We haven't been told for sure, but it was my impression that sneaking around Sam Fisher style was not going to be implemented. Bare Mettle has mentioned stealth (sorry I can't find the locations of their quotes) but they don't give details.

I think stealth will just be disguises and some thaumaturgy, as Parco said.

Bare Mettle did mention the Thief series as an inspiration of what stealth could be like though, so maybe it will be a full fledged stealth system with takedowns, line of sight, maybe light levels playing an influence.

I'd rather see some sweet-ass ranged combat and better melee myself. stealth doesn't seem to fit the isometric view so well. Actually, if there are some iso stealth games, tell me about them so I could see some examples of what they might be like.

 

[Don Kanaille]

The commandos series, man.

If you look for newer ones, maybe this or this.


However there isn´t really much to those games which I see fit for Sui Generis...

 

[Greenbrog]

Stealth seems like in order to fit it would at most make being in dark areas, darker. I wouldn't expect to ever, and I do repeat ever see any kind of automated animation. The game devs have stated numerous times how the game is supposed to be paid skill based, and that includes the swing of your weapon. I wouldn't expect some "skills or "toggle" that makes you in seen, you'd always have to be behind them, things can already tell what way your facing. And as of now, skellies don't, but they will be able to "sense" you, even through walls, stealth obviously won't help there and I hope to face lots of them soon.

 

[Minq]

Yeah. I meant iso-RPGs that also have stealth. Those games are dedicated stealth games.

 

[Don Kanaille]

Yeah. I meant iso-RPGs that also have stealth. Those games are dedicated stealth games.

But that´s what you asked for^^

Actually, if there are some iso stealth games, tell me about them so I could see some examples of what they might be like.

No, I don´t recall iso rpgs with a decent stealth system from the top of my head. The ones that try usually just have a character basically becoming invisible when his stealth skill is high enough, but that´s about it.

 

[XxBoDxX]

I definitely think peeking around corners and hiding in bushes is the best way to do it. Some way to peek into rooms and around corners without 100% exposing yourself is most realistic. I also like the idea of hugging walls. I really hate that invisibility mode stealth type of stuff, it always breaks immersion for me. In my opinion the games that do stealth best are fallout and TES games. I know it's nothing like what I said about peeking and such but I've never seen those mechanics in a game before. Maybe have a skill where you activate it and your char 'tries' to walk silently. Based on your encumberence and how noticable you are (lighting) you could sneak by an npc if not in direct line of sight.

 

[Nynuc]

Stealth is something I'd definitely like to see implemented soon. It'd give players a chance who are unskilled at the combat to have a chance to at least sneak through the dungeon alive.

 

[konggary]

TES has one of the worst stealth systems, imho. Stealing the clothes off of someone's back... It's just lazy: It basically just reduces the radius where an enemy can see you.

 

[XxBoDxX]

TES has one of the worst stealth systems, imho. Stealing the clothes off of someone's back... It's just lazy: It basically just reduces the radius where an enemy can see you.

Lol yeah there's that.. I was talking more along the lines of your characters visibility while sneaking and also the eye on the hud that tells you if hidden or close to being spotted. There's also the whole taking potshots from stealth and they just continue after awhile like they don't have 20 arrows sticking out of their face. I always thought that part was lazy.

 

[Zoltan]

One of the things we already saw, and which I am really fond of, is disguises. Either by wearing some factiion specific outfit or generally by looking unsuspicious (no, a hood and a cape and hiding from everyone is not unsuspicious. A peasant´s outfit, a basket full of vegetables and casually chatting with guards is).

I´m also taking a guess and say that there will be thaumaturgy to enhance stealth, maybe by reducing visibility or at least by granting an alternate form of movement, like teleportation (which is already in the trailers).


What I´d hate to see is rolling from cover to cover, but given Madoc´s stance on rolling this is rather unlikely in the first place :3

Completely agree with what you wrote in that post

Beside that I think it would be good to find a bit of oil or grease to tame those horrible squeaky doors

 

[Minq]

TES and fallout give a stat boost to your attacks when in stealth, which doesn't fit Sui Generis at all. How would sneak attacks work? Would they just give you a chance to strike first or would some other mechanic exist to give an edge to sneak attacks. Would sneak attacks even be given an edge?

I guess a 'sneak' stance is feasible, but it seems that sneaking in an Iso-RPG game is another thing that hasn't been done before, being loaded onto a team that is already a bit behind and innovating in a lot of other areas. I'm afraid a deep stealth system just wouldn't turn out that well and would delay even further an already late game.

Still, it would be cool. I'd just rather see other things done first. What do you guys think, especially about sneak attacks?

 

[Nynuc]

Maybe you could initiate a stealth kill that needs to be positioned carefully, like a neck stab or something, so it'd take practice to get right. It could potentially kill people in one hit if they're not wearing a helmet or if it slips between the helmet and into the neck

 

[konggary]

Maybe instead of tapping tab to go to combat mode, you hold it to toggle stealth, and your character crouches and walks a little slower (and thus more quietly). Instead of an "assassination' animation, the stealth would simply allow you to get in the first blow for a distinct advantage. With the advent of pierce weapons, a dagger could be viable this way: it's only useful in a situation where you can get close, for a quick stab to the neck.

 

[Zoltan]

I think we should already satisfy ourselves when able to attack from behind as is, no need to add more "special" attack. Then I would prefer to have a skill that allow the character to walk silently when not encumbered, this way it would be a choice not to wear heavy armors to get that edge on the unsuspecting victim(s)

 

[XxBoDxX]

Im sorry guys, I wasnt saying to give our characters in SG the same sneak attack bonuses that you get in TES games. I was simply saying I like how you are still visible when youre sneaking around and not part way invis or all the way invis. I like the idea of no bonuses except the element of surprise (which really only should mean the first hit.) and maybe if you hit them juuusst right it could be a one hit kill. Or cause an injury that would give you an edge for that fight.

This is how I would imagine the stealth mechanic.
You toggle it on and your character doesn't crouch necessarily but instead makes his silhouette harder to recognize by taking a ready stance, and thus giving him a lower center of gravity so he can move any direction more quickly than by simply turning and walking. (kind of how you move while in combat.) if you aren't too heavy you will be somewhat quieter than you are while walking, enabling you to hide in shadows and sneak behind enemies with a chance of being heard or seen. Basically if you're in a normal person field of view which is roughly 180 degrees in front of them you have a high chance of being caught while moving. A higher chance of being heard while on the sides their ears are positioned and etc. Sneak attacks don't necessarily give one hit kills unless you hit them perfectly in a vulnerable spot such as the neck or heart (assuming they are unarmored.) And even when you do get a perfect hit it might only cause a massive wound or bad injury and they would just be impaired and not dead right away. Giving a distinct advantage to those who take advantage of the element of surprise.

If I was to implement this kind of system though I would hash out the deets more thoroughly though. This is just a rough draft of what could be.