Don Kanaille
Insider
double post
Exanima gaining traction!
- Thread starter lvk
- Start date
TwoPumpWarrior
Insider
GREENLIT!
Edit: BareMettle posted this on their Facebook page, it's a pretty good read but they are super excited about the game and admit their bias.
http://absolutehell.net/exanima-review
Edit: BareMettle posted this on their Facebook page, it's a pretty good read but they are super excited about the game and admit their bias.
http://absolutehell.net/exanima-review
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RobG
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all these games have a way to heal yourself, darksouls is the only one of the three I've actually played (and completed) its hard but you only lose souls if you die, you don't get taken back out to the main menu and have to go through char creation all over again. Being able to pick up lost souls and keeping gear stops the feeling of futility and time wasting. Still stand by what I said. Darksouls is actually my favourite ARPG ever, its difficulty was a driving force and not a barrier to the enjoyment.
the learning curve is making the game highly repetitive! Constantly restarting being forced through char creation again and re-dressing my char I don't see why? cant we start with the clothes on and then the people who really want the naked guy could take them off? its just a waste of time as it is. When I die I just want to immediately start again, not jump though these hoops then wait again to stand up. Cant I keep the gear I got in the last play though or something? As it stands failure means absolutely nothing other than a waste of time and this horrible groundhog day feeling
totally disagree with this. Yes they are silly if my guy is wearing plate or restrictive armour but I'm wearing cloth? Putting a bucket on the head of a enemy is far more unrealistic and silly. Will we be forced into taking heavy armour? Will there be no 'rogue' build or similar? Acrobatics in combat is not at all unrealistic. Magically putting a bucket on the head of an enemy is totally unrealistic. I think its a shame if we are just going to be tunnelled down a road of heavy armour being the only way to upgrade.
I think this is the wrong way round to look at it. Every game in the history of time has been broken cheated and exploited. If people want to exploit and cheat the game then they will miss out on the enjoyment that's their prerogative, their loss ultimately. Mostly people would just adjust the sliders to their own preference then never change it surely? Why should everyone be restricted cause the odd player might find a way to abuse a setting.
Better at clicking a mouse in specific ways though. Its hard to seek improvement when its not totally clear what you are doing wrong. Its actually even hard a lot of the time to work out if you have hit the enemy, or if they have hit you. Sometimes I will be doing really well in a fight and landing loads of hits then out of nowhere they land some huge blow on me and virtually one shot me. Some times trying to block and positioning myself as best as I can but still take a shit ton of damage. I can see the attack coming and immediately release all buttons to block and then take damage anyway.
Oh that's another thing winning a fight but with sub 50% hp is as good as death. If I am a 25% hp I just restart because I know its pointless to continue.
I have certainly improved since I started, but there is nothing really driving me to continue playing other than the prospect of another fight I will probably lose. I was actually making some progress and enjoying the game for that, when suddenly I'm being chased around by two enemies urgh! I knew I didn't stand a chance. Again futility and time wasting frustration.
Anyway I sound awfully negative again which I apologise for because for the most part yes the reply did ease my concerns and I did go back and enjoyed the experience more for the tips you gave me. I am especially pleased to hear about the additional combat moves that will be added.
I think the game would benefit greatly with some sort of in depth video tutorial exploring the subtly of combat and helping people realise what it is exactly they are doing wrong and HOW to improve. Even the inclusion of some trivial enemies I don't think is necessarily a bad idea. Players enjoy killing things, and the enjoyment would be a motivator to continue and get past that guy who is tough. Being pwned by ai repeatedly does not make the experience more enjoyable by any stretch. I don't see why trivial is seen as such a bad thing, it could be a really good way to learn the mechanics. I'm thinking of the start of dark souls again here, which is full of trivial zombies and a really enjoyable way to learn the basics. I don't need to be repeatedly beaten to death in order to have a good time.
Holy.Death
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All games I mentioned are "unforgiving" and "difficult" and yet all succeeded in gaining attention of mass audience.
I can understand where you're coming from, but you need to learn how to fight properly. Either use lid-shield or a two-handed weapon while being mindful of your positioning and you should get through early level(s) without much problems. Once you accumulate enough armor even taking damage is not a problem as you'll regenerate and even if you sustain permanent damage there are at least two items that regenerate your health to full.
turtleman155
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aw yeah greenlit
RobG
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Your missing my point they are unforgiving yes I agree, however they are not AS unforgiving which is what I stated. They achieve a healthy balance where you actually feel like progress is being made even if you die, and don't just boot you out to the start menu.
I've been using the shield every time? I understand the combat and the physics but well my point is if say I'm not the best in the world at pin point mouse clicking I'm never going to get anywhere. Dark souls gives me the feeling of absolute control over my character. If I get hit by an enemy I can always see why and accept my mistake, with this game I don't get that feeling sometimes just don't have a clue what I've done wrong, so how am I supposed to adjust? When I have two enemies beating down on me it just feels impossible.
I just don't want to admit that this isn't the game for me I've been waiting for it for years now and I will be so disappointed if lack of mouse control (or maybe that I don't have some flashy weighted expensive mouse) is the reason why ill never be able to progress in a game which is clearly so amazing visually, and really should be the holy grail of games of this type.
Its a bit tiresome being told 'your not doing it right' again and again it might be an accurate statement but in my opinion if that is the case then things just arn't being explained well enough in the tutorial text and as I say I think a tutorial video would maybe resolve this or diagrams in the tutorial text even. People saying 'oh your doing it wrong' to me is just confirming my whole point about elitism, it will just wind up with me thinking 'oh this game is only for those people who are all doing things "correctly"
I'm an RPG fan an avid gamer so what average Joe who thought "dark souls was impossible" would make of it well ill tell you they wouldn't make forum posts and stick with it to learn it properly, they would quit and never come back. Maybe rage on some forums or shout down people who try and praise the game and I just think that's a shame. I really want to be good at this game, but it is also competing with other RPG's for my attention and at the moment I'm happier investing time into something like Pillars of Eternity or Divinity.
Honestly I could write triple the amount in praise for the game, and it might not seem like that from my posts but there is honestly so much about it I totally love (most of it has been said already by others) and I am very hopeful that when sui genaris actually arrives I will be able to invest hundreds of hours into it and immerse myself fully, I'm just not totally sold on Exanima being an enjoyable rogue-like.
Johnssonhill
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Well, if you are doing something that clearly doesn't work, then you are per definition doing it wrong. It's not a personal attack, it's just a fact. Most people in here saying those sort of things have been playing the game since the early combat alphas. I've been here since the beginning and I still think is a hard game, but not nearly as hard as when I first got my hands on it. You make progress, albeit it feels, slowly at times.
I rarely feel that a opponent can outmaneuver me anymore. It's when I get frustrated or bold that I make stupid moves that more than not ends up with me taking a mace too the head.
So just hang in there and check out some videos. There are some old forumposts of people showing some moves and techniques that I found very helpful at first. Once you get a hang of it it's really rewarding and you actually feel that you have been getting better.
Best of luck!
RobG
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Yeah well that's kinda obvious if I'm dead then I did something wrong accepted, however saying 'oh your doing it wrong' just isn't helpful at all and when its not clear what exactly I'm doing wrong or how to adjust to do things right or even if actually my mouse control or reaction speed or whatever actually makes it impossible for me and potentially others to ever play properly. I will scour the forums I guess and try and pick up some tips or watch a youtube if there is one, It would be great if one of these experienced players did a youtube tutorial
Johnssonhill
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Thats a fair point and I can respect that. Just sayin', don't take it personally. I can't speak for anybody else in here but I don't think anyone want's too make you feel like you suck or that they are better then you.
I think that's a good idea, and when you feel that you are getting better I'd love too see some tutorials from you!
Vold
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@RobG I started playing this game when the combat beta was released, and I only have defeated the expert arena 4 - 6 times, all of them changing from 2 h to 1 h + shield, against certain enemies. My next goal is doing it without modifying the initial weapon, and I think it is going to take me a while.
I'm going to be very honest here, when I started playing I thought that the controls were pretty awkward, and I had no clue about how to fight properly. The first novice enemy killed me at least 30 times before than I managed to take him down, to do that I had to read and watch some videos to learn how to use the controls. It took me like 50 hours to defeat novice, by that time I got accustumed to the controls; now I really like how the controls work (the last update modified them a substantially (WASD/combat), and I'm now trying to get used to the changes).
As i said before I have only defeated expert arena a handful of times, and all of them after a few hours of attempts. The thing is, in this game you have to control so many variables that even if you are a seasoned warrior there will always be a chance to be defeated, and this is the beauty of this combat system, unlike most games there is not a pattern to follow that will always lead you to a 100% of success unless that you are the chuck norris of gaming.
Also, keep in mind that in the future there will be a lot of more variables involved in the combat system... Smarter AI, Thaumaturgy, combat stances, combat moves (thursts, and the like), skill system,... . So, patience, practice and more practice.
I'm going to be very honest here, when I started playing I thought that the controls were pretty awkward, and I had no clue about how to fight properly. The first novice enemy killed me at least 30 times before than I managed to take him down, to do that I had to read and watch some videos to learn how to use the controls. It took me like 50 hours to defeat novice, by that time I got accustumed to the controls; now I really like how the controls work (the last update modified them a substantially (WASD/combat), and I'm now trying to get used to the changes).
As i said before I have only defeated expert arena a handful of times, and all of them after a few hours of attempts. The thing is, in this game you have to control so many variables that even if you are a seasoned warrior there will always be a chance to be defeated, and this is the beauty of this combat system, unlike most games there is not a pattern to follow that will always lead you to a 100% of success unless that you are the chuck norris of gaming.
Also, keep in mind that in the future there will be a lot of more variables involved in the combat system... Smarter AI, Thaumaturgy, combat stances, combat moves (thursts, and the like), skill system,... . So, patience, practice and more practice.
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Holy.Death
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Exanima weights things differently. It's more a rogue-like game. In rogue-likes your death is final. You're supposed not to die (or stave off death). Exanima does give you means to do so. As I said, with enough armor on you as long as you
So you either have to be good in avoiding enemies (not really fun if you ask me and the game does not seem to be featuring stealth or non-combat options, like Sui Generis) or become good in "pin point mouse clicking". I am not saying this to underline that you're bad, but to state facts as they are. I know how bad I was when I began my experience with Exanima, but I learned.
It's not that much different in spirit from Souls' - you need to know how to fight and control over your character is important. Can you do progress in Souls' without properly controlling your character? However, in Exanima you can't simply push buttons for your characters to do what you want from him. You need to guide him. I think you just need to accustom yourself with Exanima's combat more and when you get hang of it death shouldn't be that much of a problem to you.
No need for flashy weighted expensive mouse. However, you do need to either play and learn more or watch some videos where other players explain how to fight properly. It's like real medieval combat right here: when you first pick up a sword you barely know how to swing it. You need to find yourself a trainer or train yourself. There is no way around it. Only in current state it should be easier for you to pull of nice combat moves.
But I agree. A lot of stuff ain't explained well enough. But it does not change that "you're not doing it right" remains true. If it's true. Problem is I don't know how well you fight. I can only assume you fight not well, because you're having trouble.
Well, to be honest I was thinking that making a checkpoint at start of each level could help a lot. But then I thought that it wouldn't help at all. Why? Because if you can't get past level 1, then this wouldn't be of help to you save could only happen past level 1, and when you pass level 1 you're having good enough gear to not have trouble dying easily (because you regenerate even when you do make a mistake). So it kind of defeats the point. I think game should either explain combat better in the final version (probably the best solution) or give some leg to starting players (like easy mode vs expert mode).
In fact I think I should just sit down and make tutorial videos instead of trying to do it in the format I envisioned...
Well, I think Sui Generis will be able to be played differently than Exanima. Because Sui Generis is supposed to be an RPG (a proper one) and Exanima is dungeon crawler.
Johnssonhill
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I actually never made the distinction. Are they really going too be standalone games or a game with different "campaigns" like, for example: Neverwinter Nights? And if they are in fact standalone, will the have different businessmodels after release for those that haven't backed it or will they basically be sold as a bundle?
Holy.Death
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If you have one you'll have the other. Exanima takes place before Sui Generis, but they are set in the same universe. They are supposed to be stand alone games (or, more precisely: Exanima is a prelude to Sui Generis).
Exanima is a rogue-like dungeon crawler: it means heavier emphasis on combat, perma-death. It will have features that will appear in Sui Generis, like magic (forgot the proper word for it), skill system, NPCs, story, etc.
Sui Generis is an RPG: it has big open world, [more] NPCs to interact with, non-combat options (like stealing weapons of assassins instead of fighting them directly to stop them) in addition to everything Exanima has (as described above), no perma-death (you die, but they you "re-appear" somewhere in the world, far far away from where you death took place, making it harder or impossible to impact the events taking place. You can get "companions" to follow you.
Exanima is a rogue-like dungeon crawler: it means heavier emphasis on combat, perma-death. It will have features that will appear in Sui Generis, like magic (forgot the proper word for it), skill system, NPCs, story, etc.
Sui Generis is an RPG: it has big open world, [more] NPCs to interact with, non-combat options (like stealing weapons of assassins instead of fighting them directly to stop them) in addition to everything Exanima has (as described above), no perma-death (you die, but they you "re-appear" somewhere in the world, far far away from where you death took place, making it harder or impossible to impact the events taking place. You can get "companions" to follow you.
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RobG
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Just an update on this (and I feel like a bit of a fool) it turns out I had the older version and all of my previous comments are based on that version. I only realised that there was a patch (duhhh) after I posted my criticisms. I've got to say the patch just did absolute wonders for my enjoyment. The movement! Its 100x improved and I feel so much more in control of my character. Its ridded me of my frustrations and I am really enjoying the game now. (even though I'm still not that great at it) that simple change from double tap for the dash to single tap is a real game changer along with all the other niggly issues which are improved.
So yeah sorry if the patch has been out for ages and you all think I have been referring to the latest version, my bad! I now couldn't be more excited for BOTH games. I also have uploaded my first ever youtube vid on my brand new shiny channel feel free to check it out and mock my incompetence and please offer any advice on how I could improve. Please don't tell me where to find items or which doors to go through because I am actively avoiding any puzzle spoilers and discovering the items and rooms myself is what is really driving me to play this now.
(10 mins of mostly exploring, a victory and a fairly epic death, check out the enemy team work)
I'm actually blown away that the patch made so much difference. To me this is an indicator of a development team which actually listens and reacts to its fan base, a very rare thing indeed and highly commendable. Cant wait for future updates, this game has just shot up my extensive list of 'new games to play' and is firmly holding the top spot for my attention, exactly what I wanted from it. Awesome.
So yeah sorry if the patch has been out for ages and you all think I have been referring to the latest version, my bad! I now couldn't be more excited for BOTH games. I also have uploaded my first ever youtube vid on my brand new shiny channel feel free to check it out and mock my incompetence and please offer any advice on how I could improve. Please don't tell me where to find items or which doors to go through because I am actively avoiding any puzzle spoilers and discovering the items and rooms myself is what is really driving me to play this now.
I'm actually blown away that the patch made so much difference. To me this is an indicator of a development team which actually listens and reacts to its fan base, a very rare thing indeed and highly commendable. Cant wait for future updates, this game has just shot up my extensive list of 'new games to play' and is firmly holding the top spot for my attention, exactly what I wanted from it. Awesome.
Crayfish
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This live streamers first impressions video gives a great sample of the frustrations and joys of a new player of Exanima:
It takes a while to get started but represents really well the issues that new players come up against. He had a particularly hard time dealing with doors, hopefully the new patch will have improved that experience dramatically.
It takes a while to get started but represents really well the issues that new players come up against. He had a particularly hard time dealing with doors, hopefully the new patch will have improved that experience dramatically.
Scarecrow
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Holy shit Faelivrin.
This is strangely entertaining and disturbing at the same time.
...
I think I like it.
Elaxter
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That article at Pixieland linked on the first page was painful to read. The guy completely ignored the guide and essentially made up a hitbox issue with the door. His humour doesn't come off as clever and witty, just snarky and ignorant. He speaks like he never heard of a drag-and-drop inventory system before, or that 'I' is a classic inventory button. He goes through the game like an inexperienced player. He acts like the movement system is archaic and clunky. The most cringe-worthy part is how he cast the character creator in a weird light. On one hand he praises the physique slider, and on the other he mentions the colour pallet and makes it sound like a huge flaw than a style choice.
The part with the combat and physics is just... ugh. He doesn't say "wow this combat is brutal," he instead says it's the game's fault. He says that you're not supposed to engaged the enemies, which is a conclusion based on a video he saw.
The review is snarky and pretentious.
The part with the combat and physics is just... ugh. He doesn't say "wow this combat is brutal," he instead says it's the game's fault. He says that you're not supposed to engaged the enemies, which is a conclusion based on a video he saw.
The review is snarky and pretentious.
