I feel ripped off and sad about Sui Generis

[Jimmini]

Sui Generis / Examina seemed well advanced already by the time the Kickstarter campaign started

The content shown in the pre-alpha Sui Generis videos was not gameplay, it was placeholder assets put into the game engine for demonstration purposes in order to give people an idea of what Bare Mettle were trying to create with SG. There weren't almost any gameplay mechanics in place yet and the combat was barely functioning -- it required a ton of hacks just to make it somewhat functional so they could record the demonstration videos.

When the SG pre-alpha vids were recorded the game lacked the armor layering system, the player creation system, the player couldn't gain experience points and there weren't any skills to train, the game lacked hundreds of art assets which have since been created, the animation/motion synthesis was barely functional, the number of weapons and armor was quite limited, the AI was barely functional, the pathfinding wasn't very functional, the dual wielding wasn't anywhere near complete and back then it basically consisted of randomly flailing around instead of intelligently using both arms like in the current version, the NPC behavior system hadn't yet been implemented, most of the sound effects and music weren't created/implemented... I could list literally dozens of additional game mechanics which have been worked on and added after the SG pre-alpha vids were created.

 

[Dearg Doom]

So we are agreed I take it?

 

[Syllabear3]

So we are agreed I take it?

Fun is subjective. In my opinion is a worthy game.
When i first played it i had the same feeling when i started diablo 2 for the first time, and i have played that game for many many years.

 

[Dearg Doom]

Fun is subjective. In my opinion is a worthy game.
When i first played it i had the same feeling when i started diablo 2 for the first time, and i have played that game for many many years.

To be clear, I think its a great game and is getting better on every update. Im glad I supported someone doing something ambitious and interesting.

All I am saying is that, looking in from the outside, its not clear whether Sui Generis will ever be made. I think the devs are sincerely trying to but given the time Exanima is taking it follows that it will take a long time to finish Sui Generis no matter how much of Exanima they can reuse.

 

[Orlacktherof]

snip

So SG is the new HL3?

 

[Axel198]

First post, finally glad to be able to come into this discussion.

I came across the early Sui Generis videos years ago, and forgot about it. Ended up discovering Exanima and realized this was the game I came across the videos of, and bought it. I've got no problem waiting on this game.
I was around for the conception of Lugaru 2, also known as Overgrowth. The first rumblings of the game came around 2006 or so, and I was there for that. I've been following that game for literally over a decade, and had preordered it around alpha 100. The exciting thing is that there was a concept there that I wanted to be a part of and experience, and so far I have gotten to.

I view this game in the same light. I'm excited to be a part of the conception of such a radically unique concept. I've bought Exanima and despite only having 40 or so hours in it, I believe it was worth every penny. I'm excited to be able to watch this game develop and grow in a way I haven't experienced for years since the conception of Overgrowth. And I believe that once this game gets more publicity and traction, BareMettle could become a serious cornerstone of innovation in the independent gaming industry in a manner that Wolfire once was.

 

[Kaladin]

I don't feel ripped off about this game. Exanima is, in my opinion, already worth the price I paid for it; the combat system is fantastic. Though some of the design choices are rather clunky and user-unfriendly (no option for save-games is still a pet peeve of mine; I can't help but to think that there are other ways to make this more user-friendly without savegames as well. Perhaps arena mode should have those automatic checkpoints at each level-up, like the campaign mode?) and progress seems very slow, devs seem intent on getting this done.

 

[gugand]

There are several checkpoints that let you repeat a level of dungeon or part of it. Sometimes it is frustrating, but that teach you moving carefully. You will learn that avoiding combat is the best way to move cause every mistake can be fatal. Usually i fight only against enemies that attack me and usually i close doors of room i am searching in. When i died in Story mode to relax i play arena, usually with a secondary character. I have more than 160 hours in exanima and i am still have difficulties in story mode. I can't move and kill everything is moving.

 

[Kaladin]

Yes I said that. Story mode checkpoints are probably the best we're ever going to get and it's good enough for me, even though I still find it an inexplicable design choice.

 

[MrApophos]

I do not feel ripped off about Exanima at all. I've nearly 200hrs played, almost exclusively in Arena mode. I believe this game is WELL worth the money paid PURELY for Arena. Honestly, I couldn't care less about the story mode - I've played 3 levels-worth, but I just don't like it. Arena for me is where I have my fun.

It's unique, there is nothing else like it on the market and there never has been, nor does it look like there's going to be either. For about £15 I've had over a year in entertainment, how can anyone feel ripped off for that price?

Exanima is a firm favourite now, along side classics such as STALKER. I cannot wait for more.

 

[Homiccus]

Story mode checkpoints are probably the best we're ever going to get and it's good enough for me, even though I still find it an inexplicable design choice.

OT Mode: On
It is actually quite common design choice, especially for dungeon crawlers and other 'roguelike' style games. There are workarounds but permadeath and the lack of additional saves are non-optional - and that's excluding games from pre-save era where permadeath was a necessity born out of technology restrictions rather than design choice.
Examples? Rogue, FTL: Faster Than Light, Tales of Maj'Eyal, Ancient Domains of Mystery, Dwarf Fortress, Hack, Don't Starve, This War of Mine, The Binding of Isaac...
Of course there are dozens of flame wars raging on dozen forums at any given time, regarding The Pointlessness of Permadeath vs. Git Gud and Be Careful, but I think it's netiher yours nor mine intention to start another one here. Let's just shake hands and be glad for what we've got.
OT Mode: Off

 

[ThommiX]

OT Mode: On
It is actually quite common design choice, especially for dungeon crawlers and other 'roguelike' style games. There are workarounds but permadeath and the lack of additional saves are non-optional - and that's excluding games from pre-save era where permadeath was a necessity born out of technology restrictions rather than design choice.
Examples? Rogue, FTL: Faster Than Light, Tales of Maj'Eyal, Ancient Domains of Mystery, Dwarf Fortress, Hack, Don't Starve, This War of Mine, The Binding of Isaac...
Of course there are dozens of flame wars raging on dozen forums at any given time, regarding The Pointlessness of Permadeath vs. Git Gud and Be Careful, but I think it's netiher yours nor mine intention to start another one here. Let's just shake hands and be glad for what we've got.
OT Mode: Off

You forgot the father of all permadeath dungeon crawling: Nethack. Took me a year and a half to complete, though had to use save scumming,that game is brutal,specially in the last levels

Well it was made from Rogue though,but think its more well known. Still updated too.

 

[Mowglia]

I expected at least something close to what you advertised in the media section, and what I've seen on youtube.

I feel ripped off.....

If I could get a refund I would. But I don't think that's going to happen. I have a feeling this title will just fizzle out among the many pre-release alpha's.

Why work on a game anymore when you have received your money already.

You could be forgiven for feeling this way, because given the current cynical money-grabbing attitude prevalent in the gaming industry then your fears are entirely justified.

Except you just got lucky, because Bare Mettle is one of the very few companies doing it right, and doing it for the right reasons.

You won't hear much about Sui Generis for a while. What they're doing is building the assets and mechanics for SG via another game called Exanima, so although it might not look like much progress is being made, in fact massive progress is being made (you just can't see it yet, unless you're playing Exanima).

If you're just waiting for SG it'll take a while yet, but it'll arrive at some point, and it'll be close to what was advertised in the media section. I have no doubt whatsoever about that, based on the development I've seen so far (regarding Exanima).

As to WHY they would do this, they're crazy. But it's the right kind of crazy