Stekkmen
Member
Hey, don't judge other people's fetishes.
[Cross]bows
- Thread starter HypocriticalSituation
- Start date
Syllabear3
Member
What is this nonsense slur?
What you think is "tricks", it could be used to hunt yet to kill another human being.
I am not a fanboi if not a person who apreciates skill, which lacks a lot in these forums.
Indeed, skills are one of my fetishes. Don't worry you will never fit in my taste.
Stekkmen
Member
Hey, I can pat my head AND rub my tummy at the same time! It has the same amount of applicable situations as that Lars Andersen guy, anyway.
Elaxter
Insider
I'm not questioning his ability to kill anyone. But you can't tell me that what he's doing is effective on a battlefield. That's just silly.
You seem to think trickshooting is a derogatory term, which is cute.
You have him as your avatar and in your signature. You had a tagline that read "Lars Anderson, the future of archery in Sui Generis." You are getting butthurt when people question Lars, and defending him on his behalf. You are a fanboy.
Syllabear3
Member
This was used in china, for battles. If remember well they used poison on it to fire it from a bridge. It was weak spray and pray, not acurate, but had good repetition and poisoned.
As you can see its a complete shit, but it killed. Why then speedshooting is so wrong again? Or in the forst, picking an arrow in a random tree to fire it again... how isnt that useful?
I think you are really wrong thinking i am a fan of something.
But hey, thanks for trying im feeling really important now.
ChildrenofMana
Member
A new patch is here and we are no closer to (Cross)bows. I dare to say that Thaumaturgy will be first.
I find very interesting "Lars Anderson" videos, and a lot of other criticism, both bad and good.
The only point that I notice is that, the Quiver in the back or side is real and works.
I wish Exanima can have both.
I wonder what is Bare mettle thinking regarding ranged weaponry?
I find very interesting "Lars Anderson" videos, and a lot of other criticism, both bad and good.
The only point that I notice is that, the Quiver in the back or side is real and works.
- Shooting Speed; I would like to see it like we currently do in melee. The longer you hold, the more commitment you have on the swing/draw. It might even have a stamina bar like the shield, restricting how much time you can keep the bow full drawn.
- Bow Skill; We could have a "hold up to 3 arrows in the shooting hand". Making faster reloading.
- Bows with different draw strength. If you have a light bow, or a short bow you could shoot really fast "light" arrows that could so some light damage to unarmoured targets. If you hold a Heavy bow or a long bow you can shoot heavier arrows that could in theory hit some medium armoured targets. Assuming your character has the strength to pull it.
- Crossbows; They could be generally treated as a one-encounter weapon, with reloading times increasing drastically as you go in drawing strength. They could be use with ease by unskilled character, like not having "Accuracy I, II or III". I can imagine them as the opening weapon, following a melee fight.
I wonder what is Bare mettle thinking regarding ranged weaponry?
Hemectu
Insider
The historical side of the technique was missed. Mounted archery and longbow techniques are entirely different with different purposes.
A small recurve was/is used on horse back as a close range weapon.
A Longbow, as most people think of medieval bows, is a infantry rank formation weapon used for long range suppression against infantry formations. While they can be extremely accurate they were shot in arcs at 300 yards to "rain" on enemy. Cannot be used on horseback as you need your whole body to position and pull the string.
Mounted recurves on the other hand should be used to shoot directly at a target less than 100 yards.
The Japanese Yumi, while it looks like a longbow, is similar to a recurve in power and functions similarly.
If anything, for Exanima a pocket (mini) crossbow would be more common within a fortress building.
A small recurve was/is used on horse back as a close range weapon.
A Longbow, as most people think of medieval bows, is a infantry rank formation weapon used for long range suppression against infantry formations. While they can be extremely accurate they were shot in arcs at 300 yards to "rain" on enemy. Cannot be used on horseback as you need your whole body to position and pull the string.
Mounted recurves on the other hand should be used to shoot directly at a target less than 100 yards.
The Japanese Yumi, while it looks like a longbow, is similar to a recurve in power and functions similarly.
If anything, for Exanima a pocket (mini) crossbow would be more common within a fortress building.
Homiccus
Member
I find it hard to disagree with your post. I would like to point out though, that not tactics alone dictated the shape of the historical bow.
Consider the climate those bows originate from. A recurve bow (as well as the daikyū) is a 'composite' bow, made of wood, horn and sinew and held together by animal glue and originates from the dry steppes of eastern Europe and Mid-Asia. Traditional 'English' longbow is a self-bow, which means it is made of a single piece of wood. England, as we all know, is rather humid - conditions which accelerate the dissolution of the glue holding the bow together.
What I'm aiming at here (apologies, pun not intended) is that the construction of the bow forced the development of tactics and not the other way around. In order for a selfbow to reach acceptable draw weight, it needs to be long, which precludes horseback archery, hence development of infantry tactics and therefore lack of mobility, which then necessitated extended range and as a result - mass 'indirect' shooting. Conversely - a composite bow can reach near-equivalent draw weights while remaining rather compact, which allows proliferation of horse archery and all accompanying tactics up to and including the individual proficiency and marksmanship of 'direct' shooting.
For intents and purposes of Exanima, which is a fantasy game, these differences are, in my humble opinion... what's the word... superficial.
Mr.YaR
Member
What has not been said here: medieval arrow quality in terms of accuracy. Accuracy? The most critical part to me.
I suspect it rarely met nowadays arrows quality.
Arrows of the past are hard to study as wood turns to dust quickly and arrows making isn't the most prestigious technique to write about(never heard of, maybe some info exists).
Variable arrow quality impacting it's characteristics seemed to be critical in medieval armies in lasting "raids/campains/wars". Archers tryed to get their arrows back from the battlafield (random arrow characteristics and flight path guaranteed), archers try to make their own arrows (scary quality). On the other hand, bows were often used by hundreds against hundreds and often doesn't need to kill anyone to be useful, accuracy isn't a priority in that case.
I'm an archer IRL. Due to the country i live in, once we've bought cheap wooden industrial arrows. Like thirty.
We spent like 10 minuts choosing every arrow.
We fired at 10 meters, 20 meters and 30 meters at a piece of cardboard 60х50 centimeters maybe with smaller drawings on it.
Before that i only fired carbon/aluminium arrows designed for shooting at fake animals and other sport aims.
These sporty arrows flew streight and rarely had any kind of deviating behavior. In several years of flight & hit, few deformation/damage appeared.
Wooden, carefuly choosen cheap(<key moment) arrows trajectories were different on the first flight at 10 meters.... Let you imagine what happened after few shots and at increasing distance... Slowly, most of the arrows started to have their own personality and behavior...
We started having our champion arrows, that had a sooo bad flight path that we were joking about how and where it's gonna land lol. These arrows didn't allow to hit precisely even after around 15 meters...
After a month of shooting, hitting stones, trees, various trash we fire at - arrows that survived (many broke, some lost) became completely inadequat. Not speaking about humidity impact (not a humid air here), rain, bad treatement in general...
I suspect medieval arrows, even those not mass produced, rarely allowed to hit a single target with 100%. Too much random. Skill is useless when the arrow path is unpredictable after 15/20/30 meters.
Means a good probability of missing a standing person in a field. Not speaking of zombies in dark corridors that rush you with some trash in hand! Balls of steel required IRL, maybe even ingame =)
An exception would be arrows of advanced quality for non common warrior. Like elite warrior class, nobles, etc. Still doesn't mean 100% arrow accuracy.
Had to share this experience, hope it's useful =)
PS: Lots of "Edit" trying to polish my english x)
I suspect it rarely met nowadays arrows quality.
Arrows of the past are hard to study as wood turns to dust quickly and arrows making isn't the most prestigious technique to write about(never heard of, maybe some info exists).
Variable arrow quality impacting it's characteristics seemed to be critical in medieval armies in lasting "raids/campains/wars". Archers tryed to get their arrows back from the battlafield (random arrow characteristics and flight path guaranteed), archers try to make their own arrows (scary quality). On the other hand, bows were often used by hundreds against hundreds and often doesn't need to kill anyone to be useful, accuracy isn't a priority in that case.
I'm an archer IRL. Due to the country i live in, once we've bought cheap wooden industrial arrows. Like thirty.
We spent like 10 minuts choosing every arrow.
We fired at 10 meters, 20 meters and 30 meters at a piece of cardboard 60х50 centimeters maybe with smaller drawings on it.
Before that i only fired carbon/aluminium arrows designed for shooting at fake animals and other sport aims.
These sporty arrows flew streight and rarely had any kind of deviating behavior. In several years of flight & hit, few deformation/damage appeared.
Wooden, carefuly choosen cheap(<key moment) arrows trajectories were different on the first flight at 10 meters.... Let you imagine what happened after few shots and at increasing distance... Slowly, most of the arrows started to have their own personality and behavior...
We started having our champion arrows, that had a sooo bad flight path that we were joking about how and where it's gonna land lol. These arrows didn't allow to hit precisely even after around 15 meters...
After a month of shooting, hitting stones, trees, various trash we fire at - arrows that survived (many broke, some lost) became completely inadequat. Not speaking about humidity impact (not a humid air here), rain, bad treatement in general...
I suspect medieval arrows, even those not mass produced, rarely allowed to hit a single target with 100%. Too much random. Skill is useless when the arrow path is unpredictable after 15/20/30 meters.
Means a good probability of missing a standing person in a field. Not speaking of zombies in dark corridors that rush you with some trash in hand! Balls of steel required IRL, maybe even ingame =)
An exception would be arrows of advanced quality for non common warrior. Like elite warrior class, nobles, etc. Still doesn't mean 100% arrow accuracy.
Had to share this experience, hope it's useful =)
PS: Lots of "Edit" trying to polish my english x)
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Syllabear3
Member
Wood arrows bend (depend on which kind), that would explain it.
I doubt a skilled archer would have any problem knowing those kind of problems. Maybe is the way they fire it. Nowdays bows are like a joke. Were you using wood arrows with modern bows?
Anyways the funny part is the hollywood firing, as Lars explains...
I doubt a skilled archer would have any problem knowing those kind of problems. Maybe is the way they fire it. Nowdays bows are like a joke. Were you using wood arrows with modern bows?
Anyways the funny part is the hollywood firing, as Lars explains...
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Mr.YaR
Member
Seems my english isn't good enough to be fully understandable x(
Spent 10 years shooting (6 with a master teaching me). Never reached legolas level - never tryed.
And was not the only archer shooting these wooden arrows.
My modern bow is made of wood and has a... how to call that?... balcony with some cow?skin to lay arrows before shooting that is uncommon for older bows. No mechanics, no metal strings.
Excuse my vocabulary, too tired to google.
About bending and archer experience again: we all took care of these arrows and tryed to get best accuracy we could from them =)
And again, i'm here to point out an aspect that influenced archer efficiency back in the non industrial days - with a real life story about bad cheap(chinese?) arrows.
PS: aluminium/carbon arrows also bend enough for the eye to see when fired.
Spent 10 years shooting (6 with a master teaching me). Never reached legolas level - never tryed.
And was not the only archer shooting these wooden arrows.
My modern bow is made of wood and has a... how to call that?... balcony with some cow?skin to lay arrows before shooting that is uncommon for older bows. No mechanics, no metal strings.
Excuse my vocabulary, too tired to google.
About bending and archer experience again: we all took care of these arrows and tryed to get best accuracy we could from them =)
And again, i'm here to point out an aspect that influenced archer efficiency back in the non industrial days - with a real life story about bad cheap(chinese?) arrows.
PS: aluminium/carbon arrows also bend enough for the eye to see when fired.
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Syllabear3
Member
You got it explained in that video...
Because real archers (the ones that killed real things) used their bows correctly, not like hollywood.
Because real archers (the ones that killed real things) used their bows correctly, not like hollywood.
Mr.YaR
Member
Oh! the video didn't appear at first.
Not sure i understand you. Neither understand what interesting there is with this video? But i'm trying =)
When you shoot twice a week some hours with someone teaching you, you just don't need to take care of that paradox. You're told how to position yourself and shoot from the start.
The arrows i'm talking about just don't fly good. That's all. And with distance(20-30meters only)+various usage damage, the problem grows realy big.
PS: my bow is scimilar to the old man with the hat at the beginning
Not sure i understand you. Neither understand what interesting there is with this video? But i'm trying =)
When you shoot twice a week some hours with someone teaching you, you just don't need to take care of that paradox. You're told how to position yourself and shoot from the start.
The arrows i'm talking about just don't fly good. That's all. And with distance(20-30meters only)+various usage damage, the problem grows realy big.
PS: my bow is scimilar to the old man with the hat at the beginning
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Syllabear3
Member
I tried :c
Mr.YaR
Member
Thank you =) I tryed also! Peace.
Midcal9
Member
They don't and there are quite a few well preserved arrows from medieval period which have been found in near pristine condition. We know how thick they were, how long they were and out what kind of wood they were made.
http://warbowwales.com/#/warbow-arrows/4588842944
I've seen plenty of late medieval and early renaissance arrows and bolts in the museums. And even more more arrowheads.
Mr.YaR
Member
Tasty information, thank you sir =)
Never heard of. Been told some cliché it seems.
EDIT: have other link with more info please? Arrows crafting en masse interests me(middle ages), also did read several times that there were different arrow saving policies and self arrow replenishement "techniques" depending on era and folks.
For exemple mongols had death punishement for arrow loss during practice(?!).
Didn't verify that either, so might be a cliché aswell.
EDIT2: Seeying other content on "warbowwales", links to other websites what strikes me is how poor the french archery culture was poor in the club i was. What i've been told by the french put aside, france never shined at bow and arrow =)
Having hard time with PMs on this forum, will check that later
Never heard of. Been told some cliché it seems.
EDIT: have other link with more info please? Arrows crafting en masse interests me(middle ages), also did read several times that there were different arrow saving policies and self arrow replenishement "techniques" depending on era and folks.
For exemple mongols had death punishement for arrow loss during practice(?!).
Didn't verify that either, so might be a cliché aswell.
EDIT2: Seeying other content on "warbowwales", links to other websites what strikes me is how poor the french archery culture was poor in the club i was. What i've been told by the french put aside, france never shined at bow and arrow =)
Having hard time with PMs on this forum, will check that later
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Midcal9
Member
Yes I can look for some other stuff but I'm not particularly interested in archery and bows, not my thing. Instead I will post a few random links which will give you an idea that there are plenty of warbows and antique arrows. As for bow culture in France, based on what I know you weren't using bows as frequently as the Englishmen did and archery was not as deeply vested in your culture as it was in England. Which is totally fine, you used Crossbows instead and had more accent on cavalry I guess? No I guess I'm getting it wrong a bit..but you didn't use as many archers as the Englishmen did during the 100 years war that is a fact and you did have far larger cavalry force. Anyways, the Spaniards aren't big on archery either. Same goes for Germans and Poles as well as Italians.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php?topic=2283.30
http://www.theenglishwarbowsociety.com/TudorVerdegris2016.html
http://www.pba-auctions.com/html/fiche.jsp?id=2160904&np=7&lng=fr&npp=20&ordre=1&aff=1&r=
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/a0/fc/00/a0fc00829046fb337fea394d5537fb06.jpg
http://warbowwales.com/#/wilton-arrow-replica/4563532669
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