Exanima 0.4.1.1: Combat Movement Changes

[Don Kanaille]

Constantly "crabbing around" as we call it doesn't seem like a natural way to fight however and we wouldn't encourage it.

I dont want rant too much since I havent tried the new update yet, but I always thought that combatants slowly circling each other waiting for an opportunity to strike (or to create one) was really intense and satisfying... and, yes, quite natural.
Constantly dashing around sounds weird for realistic looking melee combat - I´d rather have dashing be the exemption than the rule. But before I complain anymore I´ll give it a try frist, right after I die in my current run.

 

[Don Kanaille]

double post

 

[ZaratanCho]

Yeah i played a bit with one handed sword and other weapons(no armor) and was stuck on 5-6 expert guy. I am liking it though actually feels quite good, i at least seem to be getting used to it pretty fast.

Just try to not press WASD keys too strong as to make huge lunges all the time. Overall control over your character seems a good deal better and also easier, as well as putting weight behind your attack is a lot easier(which perhaps makes it less satisfying maybe ? it does also make things move faster though, so yeah combat is faster i n general). I am still prone to making more mistakes than before though and usually one good hit and i'm as good as dead. ;d Just need get used to it more. Don't know if i press my keys less than before ;d

@Downstairs Eddie It's not like diagonal dashes were impossible before though. ;d

Perhaps there is a lot to like about this change. I think it makes combat a lot easier up to a certain skill level. Still not sure though i will install 4.0.0 tomorrow to make a direct comparison.

 

[Faelivrin]

My combat style is not aggressive but am liking this change, to me it makes more sense now. Think about it. Before, if i wanted to go move full speed i had to tap tap tap. And that is not how it works on flappy bird . It's not that i am fan of that game, but every other that comes to my mind works the other way around. On the other hand, to take smalls steps... tap tap tap just feel more intuitive to me.

Yes, i just dared to compare ExAnima and flappy birds. Go get your torches, burn the witch, i have my broom ready!

 

[Blodetsprutar]

This feels very unusual. I cannot get past novice, they are from silly mistakes out of habits so i cannot really tell if its bad or not but I can see the potential, it changes combat alot in certain situations. Is the AI compensated for this change?

 

[NewsMuffin]

After playing with the new system a bit, I gotta say it makes combat look a whole lot better. I didn't like how you crabbed around either, to be honest. It feels and looks a lot more like a real life fight now (though with how the game is I don't think that's really possible anyway, so good job on getting it this far).
However, I actually find it a lot harder now to dance in and out of the fight like I used to. I've noticed that it's a lot harder to just go straight back and forth, because I'm still getting used to the timing of steps vs dodges. I'm still getting used to it, so that may change of course.

 

[Murf]

Yeah the timing is going to take some relearning that's for sure. I think I like the new system so far though.

 

[Paranoia]

I've gone through novice & expert Arena mode in 4.1 and 4.1.1 respectively and prefer the old version.
It felt more precise, and to me more natural.

Now it seems the character is prone to turn around its own axis and the swings are almost always strong, like my dude/ess is on steroids or went beserk.
Combat movement in the new version seems over exaggerated to me. And the AI doens't seem to profit hence it feels a little unbalanced.

It turned out I had a much easier time to beat the Arena in the new Version but it didn't felt quite like the accomplishment as before.
In my opinion i would've prefered a solution which made it possible to switch between the "double tap modes" (by pressing the shift key for example).
Then it would be like switching between an all out agressive combat Stance or precise movement more defensive Stance just by altering the input command.

 

[Pilluminati]

I'm liking the direction this is going in.

This control system supports more fine grained control allowing for diagonal dashes and steps and changes in direction before the character is fully commited to a step

These are the best changes we've had for a while I think. It feels way more responsive and controllable now at times which is a bit strange because the feeling isn't there constantly. If you take the concept of changing direction before committing to a step even further I think you'll almost completely get rid of the sluggishness complaints.
Having control over the distance you move would be another key addition to achieving that "responsiveness".
I have mixed feelings about the new movement controls though. It does feel like you need to be careful to not have your character dash. Shift seems like a better option imo.

 

[Tony]

I'm liking the direction this is going in.

These are the best changes we've had for a while I think. It feels way more responsive and controllable now at times which is a bit strange because the feeling isn't there constantly. If you take the concept or changing direction before committing to a step even further I think you'll almost completely get rid of the sluggishness complaints.
Having control over the distance you move would be another key addition to achieving that "responsiveness".
I have mixed feelings about the new input method for movement though. It does feel like you need to be careful to not have your character dash. Shift seems like a better option imo.

Perhaps three movement options should exist; tapping a movement key would cause a small step, holding the movement key would cause a slightly faster walking pace and tapping shift once would cause a short dash in whatever direction you are moving. I think this setup would allow more precise and predictable movements.

 

[Soren]

Yeah, definitely an improvement on combat movement...

 

[Madoc]

To clarify, the movement hasn't changed at all, only the way you give inputs to your character. It does allow you to do some things you couldn't before but the way the steps and dashes are performed by your character is identical.

Holding shift to dash does sound like a pretty good option too, it is something we've considered before.

The AI doesn't currently reflect the change. Less skilled combatants rarely dash and none take advantage of diagonal dashes. The early arena opponents definitely feel easier when dashing a lot, the only thing stopping you from doing this before though was the controls being somewhat awkward. If the game feels easier purely because of the controls then I'd say it's an improvement. I would say that against the more skilled opponents the advantages of dashing more frequently are less noticeable.

Mostly I find that after having used the previous system so much it's hard to adjust to taking single steps with taps, it's not something we're used to doing at all.

 

[ZaratanCho]

I guess i need to see other people play it but it seems to me with this system, even if you couldn't put your weight behind your attacks properly before etc now you will be, but not because you learned how to do it or how to play but because it just happens.(kinda the same with lunging/dodging you'd do it because that's how it works not because you understand you need to lunge)
In my experience so far fights are indeed a lot faster and end a lot faster because of the hits being a lot stronger because of that.
I do like the better control you have, i still die more than i used to though.

 

[Faelivrin]

For those who are reluctant with the new combat, because they feel any change that makes the game easier is bad. I want to say that i respect their opinion, basically because i felt on a similar way at first, but try to see the whole picture.

The team is having a fat chance here, they managed to draw plenty of attention to the game and i think we all agree it is a nice thing! but it doesn't mean that the results are going to be the same after the greenlit, when the people seduced by it's pretty diablo-style graphics actually get to try it. The game is hard, complex, changeling and for most of us can be also quite frustrating. And still, most of us love each one of those features because it is exactly this what makes this game different and extremely rewarding, but those out there who normally aim for a more immediate entertainment are not going to agree with us, and will fall because the step learning curve.

On my worse case scenario this initial hype bubble would deflate on a ugly spiral of rage like we have seen many other times. "So what?" you will be thinking, "Devs have stated plenty of times that the would be happy being a niche. Why they should even try to approach to those who are not patient enough to learn play it like i did?".

If something like this went through your mind like it was my case, try to give it a second thought. Doesn't it sound a little selfish? I have reached the conclusion that they should do all they can to take this fat chance, mainly because hell, they deserve it. Still not convinced? then give it a third thought and be selfish if you don't mind. The more success they have, the more sales they'll do, the more resources they will have, the closer Sui Generis will be, the more sustainable the game will be in the future.

Anyways, after trying it a little i don't see it as a sacrifice anymore, not even a tiny one, because:

A) I like it.

B) I think the change makes the learning curve easier and don't compromise gameplay. Anything that makes the learning curve easier, even if is something small, will make more people stay.

C) Devs did changed combat previously and it turned out really good, partially thanks to the feedback. If there is something we think that can be improved, probably now is a good time to say it.

 

[Murf]

Agreed @Faelivrin , you are quite right. Madoc did state he wanted feedback in regards to the combat so it's not as if they are against making any more adjustments to how it is now.

 

[Mr_FauxPas]

The suggestions below (which were probably mentioned earlier) try to make better use of shift and (maybe) caps-lock buttons.

1) WASD makes you dash, WASD+Shift makes you step. (This conflicts with running during the non-combat mode. But then dashes will be probably used more often than steps during combat).

2) WASD makes you step, WASD+Shift makes you dash. (Is consitent with the non-combat mode. But then I foresee that using shift frequently with the pinky finger might be tiresome.)

3) Caps-lock makes the situation inverted. Shift inverts again.
For example for the first case it would be: WASD = dash. WASD + Caps-lock = step. WASD + Caps-lock + shift = dash, etc.

Anyway I think that generally this is a change in a good direction. Don't forget about RPG stuff (like conversations, stats story, skills, etc) though!

BTW: I have one question, if I might ask - in case of preserving more funds for the development of Exanima/Sui Generis, will you try to hire more staff to speed up the development process ?

 

[Murf]

@Mr_FauxPas I think Bare Mettle is trying to stay away from the 'normal' stat, skill type that we are used to seeing in RPG's

 

[Mr_FauxPas]

@Murf My mistake in expression - the 'stat' word was not to be put there. By using 'skills' though I meant exactly the thing as in about section .

Let's just change 'stat' word to 'story' or 'dynamic story'...

 

[Murf]

Hehe b no worries

yeah looking fwd to building a char per their 'About' section as well.

 

[Fatman]

My thoughts and opinions:

1. Coming from someone who isn't the greatest at combat in this game... I do feel like it helps given that there is greater momentum behind blows now. Combat is certainly faster paced and yes that may not be to the approval of those who are very good at the combat in this game, but for those that aren't, its a refreshing change of pace.

2. This update is by no means a ticket to win it however. I still fail miserably at times and despite doing a tad better as a result of this update, I'm still unable to progress past novice in the arena section. Would love to see an official combat tutorial from BM or from more advanced members of the community.

3. Despite not being particularly good, I did admire the slow and meticulous combat prior to this update. It was tactical and allowed for offensive/defensive combat plays. So I can certainly understand where much better players than I are coming from, regarding the flow of the old combat system. Given this fact, I do believe there should be an option to interchange between movement styles in combat like Mr_Fauxpas stated. Whether its an on/off option or (more preferably) bring combat movement inline with non-combat, where the WASD keys make you perform single steps and WASD keys + shift makes you dash instead.

4. I have found this update has made combat in the narrow and litter stricken corridors of the non-arena section of this game rather more difficult than it was before. Falling over obstacles and getting caught out stuck in objects and up against walls is occurring more frequently than before. Highlights in my opinion the need to have a system where holding WASD = single step (for close quarters in narrow/closed in environments) and WASD + shift = dash (for combat in more open areas).

Really looking forward to the further additions yet to come

Apologies for the wall of text

Thaumaturgy