Exanima 0.4.1.1: Combat Movement Changes
- Thread starter Madoc
- Start date
Mark Shaun Rushow
Insider
Well I spent all day practicing with the 0.4.0.1 patch. I actually improved quite a bit. I made it further than I ever have been in Exanima after playing in the Arena for awhile first.
I also was able to make it to the first long sword guy on a fairly regular basis. He is a whole new ball game so I haven't been able to beat him yet. But I did make a dramatic improvement.
I didn't realize I wasn't playing with the most updated patch however.
So I've put in a little over an hour into 0.4.1.1 and though the combat seems more fluid because everything is so much faster now I'm having a lot more difficulty trying to read the combat at the faster pace and plan.
I use sword and shield. I'm able to block far fewer blows. It is difficult to make small steps and just easier to say forget it and rely on big movements.
I think going back would be good in this case but the timing of the double tap needs some work or something. I'm thinking once the second tap is pressed and held then you stay in that dash mode until released. Or maybe the distance of the dash should be lengthened a bit.
I always felt in the old system the dash didn't gain me much in distance and the timing of the taps to pull it off felt a bit off to me.
Of course being a physics based game the character can't dash until his feet and balance is in a position to do so.
This new update feels like the feet just move regardless of balance or position. Maybe that is the key to making the old system work if that is the case.
Speed players will love this update.
I just hope the code for figuring out footwork gets better and then I think a lot will iron itself out. I find quite often I can't do something and am waiting for my character to get his foot work right and balanced. I try and help the system do that as much as I can with the cursor and WASD keys. Or I should say the system tries to help me as much as it can lol. When I know in my mind if I was in that position I could just slide my foot and step over this thing and be straightened out in the blink of an eye without thinking about it.
I also was able to make it to the first long sword guy on a fairly regular basis. He is a whole new ball game so I haven't been able to beat him yet. But I did make a dramatic improvement.
I didn't realize I wasn't playing with the most updated patch however.
So I've put in a little over an hour into 0.4.1.1 and though the combat seems more fluid because everything is so much faster now I'm having a lot more difficulty trying to read the combat at the faster pace and plan.
I use sword and shield. I'm able to block far fewer blows. It is difficult to make small steps and just easier to say forget it and rely on big movements.
I think going back would be good in this case but the timing of the double tap needs some work or something. I'm thinking once the second tap is pressed and held then you stay in that dash mode until released. Or maybe the distance of the dash should be lengthened a bit.
I always felt in the old system the dash didn't gain me much in distance and the timing of the taps to pull it off felt a bit off to me.
Of course being a physics based game the character can't dash until his feet and balance is in a position to do so.
This new update feels like the feet just move regardless of balance or position. Maybe that is the key to making the old system work if that is the case.
Speed players will love this update.
I just hope the code for figuring out footwork gets better and then I think a lot will iron itself out. I find quite often I can't do something and am waiting for my character to get his foot work right and balanced. I try and help the system do that as much as I can with the cursor and WASD keys. Or I should say the system tries to help me as much as it can lol. When I know in my mind if I was in that position I could just slide my foot and step over this thing and be straightened out in the blink of an eye without thinking about it.
Mark Shaun Rushow
Insider
We spin around so much easier now because we move moving so quickly with far more force behind our movements. It makes it a challenge to not do this for sure. Even taking this into account I still spin around like a marionette. It is too much and I think the reverse method we had before was the superior. I could see this method working excellent for pros and trick combat or newbies wanting fast paced combat with easy blows. They wouldn't know of or understand why the old system was better. And for newbies not having that slower combat in the beginning it'll make it that much harder to realize what and how they are doing it wrong.
Vold
Insider
I like the first idea (staying in dash mode after a double tap), it sounds like a middle ground.
What I miss the most of the previous system is that I could control much better the distance between the characters, sometimes even to a level where I could do very precisely timed counters, evading the opponents blow by moving slightly backwards.
Also, when fighting against some opponents I always felt cornered (5th opponent), the fights always felt pretty close (most of the times), but now it seems much easier and less epic.
Nevertheless, I don't miss bashing the keyboard to perform a dash, in that sense this new system is better.
Mark Shaun Rushow
Insider
I've just noticed and I don't remember seeing it posted anywhere. The cursor now stays pretty close to my character. I love this.
What if this is an
April Fools joke?
What if this is an
April Fools joke?
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Downstairs Eddie
Insider
I made a video of the first 4 expert arena fights (before I died), concentrating on minimal movement. I don't think there's much more movement here than there was under the previous control scheme. You just need to be mindful of your button presses. Most of the lunges are to move in and out of swing range, and more responsive movement there is a good thing imo.
In the 4th fight there are a couple of instances of the "pirouetting" that people have found more common now. If you look at the cursor, though, you can see that when the character spins it's because I've moved the cursor through the character. So the game is behaving as it should, it's my cursor movements that are bad. (The 4th opponent also does a spin, but that's because he took a mace to the face
).
In the 4th fight there are a couple of instances of the "pirouetting" that people have found more common now. If you look at the cursor, though, you can see that when the character spins it's because I've moved the cursor through the character. So the game is behaving as it should, it's my cursor movements that are bad. (The 4th opponent also does a spin, but that's because he took a mace to the face
).
Prince Charming
Insider
No, this is not at all what I was trying to say. When I said new dashes or the like, by this I meant the control system of these dashes since that is the topic of discussion. I just expressed my opinion on the matter of the "new" control system that's all. ^^
Prince Charming
Insider
I have now also played through the Exanima, and must say that I could get used to this control system. Just re-practice it all It is definitively an improvement overall. ^^
It is definitively an improvement overall. ^^
Madoc
Project Lead
There should be another update coming today or tomorrow which will include an option to use the old double tap dash system. We will also explore other possible improvements such as being able to use the run/sprint button.
There do seem to be some procedural animation issues and we do also have plans to further improve character balance but it's very complicated stuff so not sure when I'll get round to doing it.
There do seem to be some procedural animation issues and we do also have plans to further improve character balance but it's very complicated stuff so not sure when I'll get round to doing it.
Tapping for steps seems reasonable. The use case is small steps forwards and backwards for distance management, similar to the taps. Holding for dash also seems reasonable for the same reason, a long movement occurs when you hold the key for a longer time.
Btw, is there a way to control with which leg the dash is performed? In real life, there's a huge momentum difference between pushing with one leg or the other.
Btw, is there a way to control with which leg the dash is performed? In real life, there's a huge momentum difference between pushing with one leg or the other.
TwoPumpWarrior
Insider
I plan on really trying the new system but I've yet to reproduce my old style. Looking forward to toggle in case though. Hope work is going well at the base, looking forward to see some stuff you've been hiding
Prince Charming
Insider
Am looking forward to it! ^^
Another thing I am looking forward to is the archery. The physics, seeing the arrow pierce the target and have them rag-doll to the ground is quite exciting! Very interested in how the mechanics will be regarding the bows and arrows! ^^
P.S. Perhaps put in a better version of the 1h battle-axe...
Another thing I am looking forward to is the archery. The physics, seeing the arrow pierce the target and have them rag-doll to the ground is quite exciting! Very interested in how the mechanics will be regarding the bows and arrows! ^^
P.S. Perhaps put in a better version of the 1h battle-axe...
ZaratanCho
Insider
Haha it would be fun to shoot 1 arrow hit the zombie but he just runs up to you quickly before you can take him down and starts swinging.
JonU
Insider
These two points are key for me.
First, easier opponents being easier helps new players get acquainted to the game. Harder opponents staying relatively the same doesn't blunt the overall challenge. Basically, new players will enjoy quicker progress immediately, perhaps not getting turned off quickly by what most agree is a different/quirky/unusual (and great!) combat system.
Second, I'm ok with the new system. I *think* I'm going to like it more. But the biggest hurdle I noticed is the one you mention: Reprogramming my brain to take single steps by tapping. When I force myself to do this, I find my footwork improves dramatically. It's likely just an issue of needing time to adjust. For reference, I'm probably an average player. I can roll through the novice area fairly well depending on my concentration, with a couple still able to give me trouble. And I'm up to the last 2-3 in expert but haven't beaten them yet. And I was already dashing constantly. This change just makes it far easier, and less of a chore.
Ultimately, I think letting players choose the setup is the best choice. Whatever makes more players feel more comfortable while playing. Not everyones' brain is going to work the same way.
-
Footwork is represented pretty well in this game. It's obviously abstracted by being a game, but it's still well represented. This change in controls really brings that point home for me.
When you swing in relation to when you step is pivotal. And that is very alien in a computer game. It's rarely (never?) been done within actual physics in a game. So we players aren't used to it. (There's obviously timing in many games, but it's generally in relation to canned animations that the player can easily map mentally). I would suggest considering pushing the importance of the idea of "footwork" for new players. Stepping, dashing, swinging, stepping into swings, staying centered for defense, all while being subjected to physics are all key elements that video game players aren't used to thinking about much. But it's all here in SG, and when used, make a world of difference in the experience.
Perhaps making a video tutorial showcasing just the importance of footwork would be helpful for new players. How a swing is different depending on your movement, or even lack thereof. How stepping into a swing is different from a stationary swing, which is different from stepping back while swinging. How remaining stationary while defending is different from moving into an enemies swing while defending, which is different from moving out of an enemies swing. Etc etc...
Show new players that even though there are no "moves" with canned animations and bound key presses, there are indeed basic moves and stances, and those are the basis to build more sophisticated tactics out of.
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Mark Shaun Rushow
Insider
I must say I am fine with the control changes now. I'm not sure if it is for the better or not. I'm not a combat expert. I do look forward to the option that I may switch between the two freely and really get a sense of which method I prefer.
I do a heck of a lot of strafing attacks now. I primarily use sword and shield in my Arena fights. I love using the shield it is so much fun.
I wish pushing into my opponent hard and quickly worked to stun creating an opening. I don't know how many times I punched the combatant in the face or checked him hard and thought that should have stunned him a split second.
I'm not sure if the changes have improved my game I still get to around the same tier in the arena and I do tend to fight a bit more sloppy taking bigger bets and getting out quickly.
I have mentally leveled up in my understand of what I should be focused on and how to think about things. Playing for a while stopping and coming back again later seems to work wonders. I don't get spun around like I was when the update first patched. Keeping an eye on where that cursor is at all times is the most important thing next to where the enemies weapon is.
I would perhaps make the cursor stand out a bit more. It would be nice to be rid of it completely but it is necessary and standing out more would keep me from spending time looking for it.
Even though I can't make it past the second shield lady yet, just barely getting passed the first long sword guy on occasion; I am having a blast playing right now. Before it was a bit too much to be fun for long and I'd get tired of getting my butt kicked and my wins were inconsistent. There is a sort of flow I'm falling into now and a general understanding of the combat as well as my reading of the ememies movements has greatly improved. I'm seeing opening and getting in there on time more often. I'm getting better at pulling of tricky maneuvers that I really wouldn't know how to put into words. I do things that are not basic just by feeling them out. Which means the physics are being represented well on screen when I can visually feel something.
I usually am aware when I'll be leaving myself open and can sort of start planning for it.
I do a heck of a lot of strafing attacks now. I primarily use sword and shield in my Arena fights. I love using the shield it is so much fun.
I wish pushing into my opponent hard and quickly worked to stun creating an opening. I don't know how many times I punched the combatant in the face or checked him hard and thought that should have stunned him a split second.
I'm not sure if the changes have improved my game I still get to around the same tier in the arena and I do tend to fight a bit more sloppy taking bigger bets and getting out quickly.
I have mentally leveled up in my understand of what I should be focused on and how to think about things. Playing for a while stopping and coming back again later seems to work wonders. I don't get spun around like I was when the update first patched. Keeping an eye on where that cursor is at all times is the most important thing next to where the enemies weapon is.
I would perhaps make the cursor stand out a bit more. It would be nice to be rid of it completely but it is necessary and standing out more would keep me from spending time looking for it.
Even though I can't make it past the second shield lady yet, just barely getting passed the first long sword guy on occasion; I am having a blast playing right now. Before it was a bit too much to be fun for long and I'd get tired of getting my butt kicked and my wins were inconsistent. There is a sort of flow I'm falling into now and a general understanding of the combat as well as my reading of the ememies movements has greatly improved. I'm seeing opening and getting in there on time more often. I'm getting better at pulling of tricky maneuvers that I really wouldn't know how to put into words. I do things that are not basic just by feeling them out. Which means the physics are being represented well on screen when I can visually feel something.
I usually am aware when I'll be leaving myself open and can sort of start planning for it.
Try to play arena with different weapons. I, like you, started with a shield and one-handed weapon and finished the novice area, but in the expert arena I seem to fare better with the two handed weapons like the two-handed sword and recently tried my luck with the hammers.
Learning to play with the different weapons makes it easier to understand enemies with those weapons which will increase your skill level.
Learning to play with the different weapons makes it easier to understand enemies with those weapons which will increase your skill level.
Blodetsprutar
Insider
Took a few days to readjust, now im better then ever. Sometimes I find myself dashing when i dont want too due to the light hold threshold could be a tad longer to activate
JoshWaldron
Insider
Since this update, I was finally able to clear the Exanima expert combat arena! It wasn't that combat was exactly "easier", I just felt like I had more fluid control over my character that allowed me more opportunities to strike from different angles which is great. My character feels more comfortable on his feet and in his movement which I see as a positive.
