How is dialogue with NPCs going to work?

NachoDawg

Member
Title asks it all. Does anyone know how dialogue is going to work in future? I remember that it's going to be mostly just text without voice acting on most npcs, but how are we going to respond to them? Dialogue options? Free text and the NPC interprets it like cleverbot? No answering at all, just getting prompted for actions?


npc: I stole your horse!

you: *punches him*

npc: Oh no I'm intimidated, here have the horse back!


I can't find any information on this and it really got me thinking, becaus I don't know if I can really compare this game to other games to form an assumption on how this is going to turn out



Personally I'm hoping for a Dark Souls thing where the npc does the talking and it's up to the player what he wants to do with the information, and at most the player can asked for a yes/no answer
 

RobG

Insider
Cleverbot is horrendously not clever haha, I know voice acting wouldnt work for 100% of the dialogue options but I kinda hope to see some voice acted parts just for the really important guys/interactions. Even if the first line of NPC dialogue is voice acted then the rest of the convo plays out in text, I think even a minimal amount adds a lot to RPG's. I used to love it in fallout 'Whatcha be needin'?"
 

-Tim-

Insider
Cleverbot is horrendously not clever haha, I know voice acting wouldnt work for 100% of the dialogue options but I kinda hope to see some voice acted parts just for the really important guys/interactions. Even if the first line of NPC dialogue is voice acted then the rest of the convo plays out in text, I think even a minimal amount adds a lot to RPG's. I used to love it in fallout 'Whatcha be needin'?"
Hmm I don't like first lines of NPC dialogues being voice acted. It disturbs me in using my own imagination to imagine the voice of the person I'm speaking to and breaks my immersion more than it adds to it.
 

Scarecrow

Insider
Hmm I don't like first lines of NPC dialogues being voice acted. It disturbs me in using my own imagination to imagine the voice of the person I'm speaking to and breaks my immersion more than it adds to it.
I agree with this. If its not going to be fully voice acted, then I'd rather use my own imagination to give them voices. So to me, it's either full voice acting or no voice acting. With the exception of combat shouts/grunts etc.
 

RobG

Insider
Yeah respect your view on it but disagree, I think it can break up long sections of text and give the NPC's more interest and expression, Something said out loud can leave a stronger impression on the player too imo, but it wouldn't be a massive deal not to have it either just a thing I like personally I guess.
 

NewsMuffin

Insider
I do hope the actual dialogue input system is similar to Morrowind or Daggerfall, where you choose what you want AND how you convey it (ex. Want Apple - Force/Neutral/Plead).
 

Bullethead

Member
I do hope the actual dialogue input system is similar to Morrowind or Daggerfall, where you choose what you want AND how you convey it (ex. Want Apple - Force/Neutral/Plead).
I liked this general idea but I thought they could have implemented it better. The 3 "mood" options aren't enough nor do their names fit many situations. Thus, out of fear of hosing up the conversation beyond repair, I used "neutral" like 99% of the time, which rather defeated the purpose of having the system.

If you had things like "angry A-hole", "darkly menacing", "socially superior", "professionally polite", "indifferent", "socially inferior", "very socially inferior", "groveling", then it might be more useful :)
 

NewsMuffin

Insider
I liked this general idea but I thought they could have implemented it better. The 3 "mood" options aren't enough nor do their names fit many situations. Thus, out of fear of hosing up the conversation beyond repair, I used "neutral" like 99% of the time, which rather defeated the purpose of having the system.

If you had things like "angry A-hole", "darkly menacing", "socially superior", "professionally polite", "indifferent", "socially inferior", "very socially inferior", "groveling", then it might be more useful :)
Oh, I agree 100%
I was merely using the 3 as an example, and besides, both of those games are over a decade old, nearly two. If Bare Mettle, given their current track record for crazy quality and polish, couldn't come up with something better, I'd be more than surprised to say the least.
 
I really enjoyed the snippets of text you could find in various books and scrolls around the dungeon. It would be impressive if they could keep that quality of writing and narrative.

Does anybody know how many people are working on the writing at BM? I can imagine there not being a lot of people. It gives us an idea of the scope.
 

Tony

Insider
I really enjoyed the snippets of text you could find in various books and scrolls around the dungeon. It would be impressive if they could keep that quality of writing and narrative.

Does anybody know how many people are working on the writing at BM? I can imagine there not being a lot of people. It gives us an idea of the scope.
Madoc has done a little, Bethain does quite a bit too. I'm not sure if other team members also contribute to the writing. Their team currently consists of less than 10 people but they'd like to hire more if they get the funds to do so.
 

MathieuG89

Member
Madoc has done a little, Bethain does quite a bit too. I'm not sure if other team members also contribute to the writing. Their team currently consists of less than 10 people but they'd like to hire more if they get the funds to do so.
Well it would be a nice start if they had a page for donations.
 

Faelivrin

Insider
I don't know much about how to the dialogue will be, just that there will be some systems in place so the NPC have better awareness and behave in meaningful ways. I think what they are mainly trying to achieve is to avoid the typical immersion breaking situations. Words are not just words, they also carry reactions and consequences.

About the speculation if the system will be superior or not to Morrowind, in my opinion it is not just about having more modern technologies. I think that when talking about game design aspects like dialogue some other factors like the manpower (quantity and quality of the writers) are also important. SG dialogue system will be dynamic in some degree, but at the end of the day the basics are the same than 20 years ago: someone have to write dialogue pieces in scripts. Having 8 different ways of asking a question sounds quite good, but it also multiplies number of responses someone should write, and also different responses may trigger different outcomes with different dialogues, think about the branches of a tree. In this sense bethesda had one great advantage, they had more manpower back then than BM now, and also had dedicated people for specific tasks.

I really hope BM can keep following the motto they have been following so far: put a system in place so it makes the work for you instead of using brute force. But i have no doubt this will be another great challenge.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Development_Team
 
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Bullethead

Member
...SG dialogue system will be dynamic in some degree, but at the end of the day the basics are the same than 20 years ago: someone have to write dialogue pieces in scripts. Having 8 different ways of asking a question sounds quite good, but it also multiplies number of responses someone should write, and also different responses may trigger different outcomes with different dialogues, think about the branches of a tree. In this sense bethesda had one great advantage, they had more manpower back then than BM now, and also had dedicated people for specific tasks.
There doesn't have to be an equal number of NPC dialog responses to the number of moods the player can choose. It's the same as the player only having a few options but being able to choose many moods. The NPC would still say the same things but the NPC would also show a mood somehow (via text saying the mood, a thumbnail portrait changing facial expresssion, etc.), and long-term effect being logged in the NPC's opinion of you, your standing with the NPC's faction, etc.
 

Nynuc

Insider
I think sometimes it breaks immersion when you have a voice in your head of the npc, Then suddenly they would blurt out something that sound totally different. Then again, The odd voice here and there, would most certainly improve immersion in my opinion. But I think it's all about priorities here. I'd rather have them work full time on the dialogue then spend time trying to acquire voice actors for a few greeting lines here and there. Although I do agree it would be nice for particular npcs.
 
I have been contemplating the dialog feature for quite a while and have been trying to work out a concept for the game. I have been thinking up the logic for a procedural dialog system that is able to change certain key words in a sentence and use certain sentences from an array. E. G. You are caught stealing a helmet from an npcs house, he confronts you saying:
-"hey, drop that back"
-"hey, that's me helmet " helmet is the keyword that could change depending on what the item is.
-" what do you think you are doing"
These options could also be used in other situations, and could make dialog abit more diverse.

Now dialog options should work like sort of a modular block. Imagine the npc remembers who it meets depending on their relationship enemies/friend/family/aquaintance/close friend certain information can be shared, like passing on a block. So when 2 npcs meet they engage dialog and depending on different factors like, what events happened that day, are they under the influence of alcohol, are they injured, are they dying, they can pass on information. This information becomes options that can be learned by the player, if the player asks questions that are linked to that information. Now some questions is how will we find out this information? Is it an option we will automatically see? I think it is better if we have a deep library of information accessible in dialog but delivered very streamlined. I have an idea building in my head and will share if it pans out.

The advantage of a procedural dialog that has changeable variables is you can have dynamic sentences. E. G. Getting directions to the next town. "head North/east/up/down along/beside/straight the dark wood road. Basically all the bold words can change depending on the characters location to where you are asking about. Obviously the npc will need to know it's directional location and any information of roads/rivers/towns/other npcs/locations/lore. I am writing on my phone so hope it isn't too hard to read will edit later and add to.

Edit: The idea behind the modular information is that npcs can be given different blocks which represent the information known by this npc. They are further sorted into the people who this information can be passed on to it could be information for a single npc like a Lord or a king or master, this can be learned only through force, bribery, threatening. It can be general information like a group of bandits attacking the town, it could be information about a stranger that passed through here 2 nights ago. The npc could learn this information by seeing it, experiencing it, being told about it, or overhearing it by passing/hiding near an npc talking about it. You the player can also learn information which fills your library such ways. So possibly at the begining of the game you only have the option of asking things like who are you, tell me about this place, where is........., but later you can ask more specific questions about things you have learnt. the gui for working with this system is also being thought up. Let me know what you guys think so far, may help the team.
 
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Elaxter

Insider
I made a thread a while back, here

http://www.baremettle.com/forums/index.php?threads/the-dialogue-system.2414/

It was in reference to this year's E3 where they show cased Fallout 4's dialogue system.

to quote myself:

Notice on the top right there's a tone option. This option is the center of this thread. Exanima and Sui Generis should do this. Fallout 4 can't do this because it has VAs for all characters. But Exanima and Sui Generis seem like the kind of game that would follow in the classic RPG style: where only the important characters are voice acted, excluding the main character, and the common characters are text. This cuts out a lot of recording and a lot of work, and it also allows for more dynamic dialogue options. Sure there's no voice, but anyone who likes reading wouldn't mind.

As for the tonality. The player should have an option similar to that. Instead of having 3 different ways to say "goodbye," there would be only one, with an option in the dialogue menu that indicates tone. A polite, normal, and blunt setting that would change how the character says it. Bluntly asking a noble "where's the bathroom" is going to make him mad, while politely asking would make you sound like you're respectable.
 
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