Inventory handling

[MrIdontKnow]

Many replies. Thank you.

To give some arguments against certain points:

Realism:
It's a trade off. Realistic features can be really cool, but it also can turn games into tedious work.

Relevance of items:
The funny thing here is, the relevance of every item is influenced by the inventory space that is available. (Of course it is also influenced by other determinants.)
What about that spare equipment you might want to use? Some extra Arrows? Some herbs? Maybe Ore? Some choices are obvious while other choices make you waste a lot of time sorting through all that stuff. Now if you suddenly have twice as much room, more items would be relevant. If you had unlimited room, all of them would be relevant and saves a lot of time.

Immersion:
Did any of you ever play a game of the Gothic series or Risen? They have unlimited inventory. To many people those games are the most immersive RPGs. Personally I never felt any interruption in my immersion in them. Actually thanks to that the gameplay felt so very smooth like nowhere else. Honestly I can't remember any kind of other RPG with a limited inventory space, that didn't turn into a tedious game of "find the most useless stuff and get rid of it".(Baldurs Gate? Yeah annoying. Wizardry? not too many items but still annoying. Diablo or any other ARPG? Don't even start. MMORPGs? Jesus Christ. They even sell you bagspace these days.)

Also... you are raiding the evil Lords dungeon to save the world from being destroyed... every 30 minutes you take a break and run back to some merchant to sell all the stuff you gathered on your way. Some Immersion you got there.



There is always a possibility of compromising. If there is limited inventory space, then there should be other ways to transport more, like a mule.
It also depends on the relations between inventory space and amount and value of items you can find and various other things like the value of items. As I see it, you will always run into some kind of imbalance between the value of money, the value of items, the value of inventory space or game difficulty.


In the end I just hope, that the devs will read this thread and think about those possibilities. I very much like all the plans for this game so far, except for the probably limited inventory space.

I like your post, but I have to say about the inventory space, I really like how Fallout 3 did its inventory, all gun ammo was weightless, but other things had weight like grenades and whatnot. I can remember Bare Mettle saying that filling your bag and selling everything won't help you much, simply because the NPC's won't want it. Also, I can imagine any thriving businesses in small towns, so don't expect a diamond shield.

I think that's how they'll tackle it, items found in the world are worthless, but priceless if you use them right.

Very rare items will be your money income if you we're to sell, but then you don't have your items.

 

[Rob]

Yes, I'd much prefer an innovative new system that doesn't try to copy what other games have done in the past. Sure, limitless inventories can work, and in games with a good degree of immersion. But I'd rather Bare Mettle choose what they think "feels right" for Sui Generis, rather than necessarily copying features from other games because gamers have said that they liked it in that context.

Loot not being worth much, and hard to come by, is sure something that we're not used to from previous RPGs... it sounds like a risky move, but I'm confident that Bare Mettle know what they're doing.

 

[fluffydino2000]

Thing is with this game, as the devs have said (I'm not sure where), money won't be hugely important. So if you were fighting through the underworld, you'd probably be well equipped and the loot you'd get would likely be beneath you. If this is the case, you'll never need much inventory space. Also, with the way the inventory works, realistic placing of items on your character, you would likely have a quiver for your arrows and a pouch for your herbs. If you were to find yourself in the situation where you want to loot something to sell, you'd have to lug it back at the cost of speed and manoeuvrability. This, however, will likely be such a great item that lugging it back becomes worthwihile along with the dangers with it.

Edit:
I realise that MrIdontKnow just said nearly the same thing I just did so sorry

 

[BrecMadak]

Strictly i'm against anything limitless, it dumbs down the game in the first place. It is "you" who must think whether would it worth carrying or not. Games that's designed with 'limitless inventory space' mind are already in totally off sides with SG since they cater to casuals which is very unlikely SG ever could be.

I also would go in the vein how UO handled back then, spiced with SG.

 

[SlippedUp]

As a counterpoint.

I read that they detest the idea of porting to town so I don't think the old Diablo tropes are to be a main feature i.e. grab everything, when full, port, sell, money. If you read the updates they mention the fact that although you can pick up and collect just about everything, the vast majority will have no value. so what's the point.

Due to this fact the idea of an unlimited inventory seems kind of moot. Due to the low value of items you would surely only collect that which is valuable to your character. The agony of choosing between which items to keep and which to chuck has always appealed to me personally(anyone remember Alone in the Dark, dreadful game but intriguing and super realistic-ish inventory system).

'gonna have to drop these pots for this truly epic item I'll be able to use in 2 levels. Wait whats that noise, oh god where did that come from? is it chewing on my leg? aarrrg i need health. damn were did i put those health pots. why did you drop them you fool etc.'

As a side note, yes I refer to myself in the third person in times of stress.

Besides all that i think you guys are right, for realism's sake perhaps a companion or beast of burden would allow for both item loving hoarders as well as purists.

Bring on the Mules!

Edit: seems others got to this before me. excellent i am not alone. pats all round.

 

[Sparrow]

Strictly i'm against anything limitless, it dumbs down the game in the first place. It is "you" who must think whether would it worth carrying or not. Games that's designed with 'limitless inventory space' mind are already in totally off sides with SG since they cater to casuals which is very unlikely SG ever could be.

This.

 

[fluffydino2000]

I don't think backpacks have been mentioned so far. But, anticipating Bare Mettle's stance on it, I can imagine that if you've got a backpack on then it will be physically present on your back (or hip, or whatever). If you put things in it, it will visibly fill up and perhaps inhibit your movement, i.e. throw your centre of gravity somewhat. Just guessing.

This raises the question of how useful carrying stuff could be. I wonder if carrying tonnes of bricks in a backpack and thus increasing your weight could be useful. Consider this, an incredibly heavily armoured archer that ways around 500kg against porky. Porky would be screwed. There isn't a chance than anyone could move or unbalance you because you are so heavy. That way you can attack relentlessly with a bow that requires little footwork to use and you're sorted!

 

[Rob]

This raises the question of how useful carrying stuff could be. I wonder if carrying tonnes of bricks in a backpack and thus increasing your weight could be useful. Consider this, an incredibly heavily armoured archer that ways around 500kg against porky. Porky would be screwed. There isn't a chance than anyone could move or unbalance you because you are so heavy. That way you can attack relentlessly with a bow that requires little footwork to use and you're sorted!

Having a heavy backpack won't simply make you heavier, and thus an immovable beast!

Rather, it will make your backpack heavy, which will move you're centre of gravity up and behind you, thus you will be pulled over backwards.

I can imagine that such effects will be modelled realistically with whatever you're carrying, whether in your backpack or not. Whenever you think about picking an item up, you're going to have to think about whether or not it's worth it, given that it will affect your balance and thus fleet-footedness...

 

[fluffydino2000]

You make an excellent point. Depending on how the inventory is managed though, this could still work. You could attach two or three pouches to the front of your belt, fill them with rocks too and counter balance the weight on your back!

 

[Rob]

You make an excellent point. Depending on how the inventory is managed though, this could still work. You could attach two or three pouches to the front of your belt, fill them with rocks too and counter balance the weight on your back!

Imagine the size of your legs - tree trunks!!!

Edit: As long as your legs hold out, and you don't want to run anywhere, it may just work out for you. Alternatively, you could just sit down and hold a crossbow. Set up a trap, sort of thing.

 

[SlippedUp]

Of course one would have to weigh in the additional destructive force porky's flail would have on an effectively static object. If my calculations have been tabulated correctly this would surely result in the archer being smeared across the High-res landscape.

I need to do more math but i will return shortly with the results. i promise. ^^

*EDIT* The centre of gravity! Curses! I knew I missed something, ah well you all make valid points. It will be interesting to see how they address it in game.

 

[fluffydino2000]

I await them eagerly.

Edit: Indeed, it appears you SlippedUp slightly there

 

[SlippedUp]

I am sitting at my desk right now grinning like a madman. The idea that a game is to be created where the possibility exists that the players will manically gather loot, not for its monetary value but because it will turn them into an effective Juggernaut fills me with an odd sense of pleasure.

Whether or not such inventiveness makes it into the final cut remains to be seen however that the possibility even exists at all is pretty darn exciting for the game and the industry at large.

As to my computations; I require more variables. computer currently running at 78% capacity. I am hearing the whistling of steam. Concern? Possible.

Edit*

Indeed, it appears you SlippedUp slightly there

I knew that would come back and haunt me one day

 

[cosmo bozo]

Also... you are raiding the evil Lords dungeon to save the world from being destroyed... every 30 minutes you take a break and run back to some merchant to sell all the stuff you gathered on your way. Some Immersion you got there

Why does every RPG have to turn into a selling junk simulator?
In real life you wouldn't go back to sell it, you'd just leave it there, or if it was really valuable pick it up on the way out...you dont have to sell everything.

I do agree about a pack mule, would be a good compromise to have a realistic way of carrying loads of stuff

 

[Mimel]

I remember the old days of tabletop games. We always dropped our packs before fighting, when necessary. We also had to juggle the light source. I always had trouble with limited pack space, BUT only when the items I found seemed equally important to keep. I always had trouble with unlimited pack space, when I didn't have to think about the value, but had to rummage through it all to find things.

My point is that I prefer the realism of SG. The inventory should match that. Limited space, with limited items that have value AND weight. There are so many other possibilities realistically speaking to accommodate this, such as the "mules", party, or just plain doing without. The whole point of the game is not to copy the quest-get items-quest again. This is a story. Let's play it with the realism in mind. I can foresee our characters actually taking off the backpacks, bending down and then searching through the gear, rather than the same old grid system of inventory.

Dropping a backpack for the fight should come with a chance of breakage. Realism! Using the backpack to fend off an attacker. Realism! Protecting the mule. Realism! Encountering travelling merchants, caravans, miners, etc. Realism!

 

[SlippedUp]

Looking over all the comments I think we, pretty well, all agree that realism is preferable over ease of access. But generally speaking the way this game is looking to shape up I don't think we have to worry over whether or not there will be enough bag space. Rather, that we'll be running around trying to find something valuable enough to pick up in the first place.

This sounds much more preferable. It might actually help make exploring a more enjoyable and worthy game mechanic again, instead of feeling like you're just trawling through a never ending series of passages to collect 5 of X that Mr. Farmer said he dropped down there last week.

How on earth did he get past all those skeletons in the first place?

 

[fluffydino2000]

It does seem like we'll finally have a game where one finds a legendary weapon and feels good about it. Unlike in Skyrim where you can make better stuff yourself. That, in my opinion, was dumb.

 

[SlippedUp]

God that was annoying

'well done mortal for destroying the ancient evil that corrupted my place of worship i give you [Insert Awesome Sounding Name Here]. May it be a light for you in dark times etc. etc. check stats 27 damage. Plain hand crafted ebony sword, nothing special, 32 damage.'

That was broken beyond belief. That BM are ignoring player crafting for NPC crafters is a good move in my opinion. We are getting seriously off topic here.

We should handle our inventory lest our inventory handle us. There, that's better.

 

[Siyeh]

Many replies. Thank you.
Also... you are raiding the evil Lords dungeon to save the world from being destroyed... every 30 minutes you take a break and run back to some merchant to sell all the stuff you gathered on your way. Some Immersion you got there.

If I recall correctly becoming rich will not be a main point of the game. There may be no need to sell every little thing you find. Why should you expect to pick up every single weapon your opponents used?

I actually like to idea of being required to leave behind potentially useful things. It forces you to make priorities and stick with them, rather than grabbing everything within a ten foot radius.

I've also got the impression (although this could just be from forum talk) that even rusty swords will be rare and valuable. I wouldn't expect 15 different kinds of ore, 20 kinds of wood, and 35 different types of cloth that you can lug around with you all the time. I expect to be stoked when I find a slightly less rusty sword (or lighter, or longer, or whatever) drop the one I'm using and go on. Hoping that a new enemy doesn't find my old weapon and stab me in the back with it...

 

[MrIdontKnow]

I'm really liking some of the posts after my last comment here, especially fluffydino2000's haha.

The backpack thought with the centre of gravity changed because of a heavy backpack is simply brilliant, having what would be a 'little knock' would actually transfer into a full blown gravity push because of the weight of the backpack! Great idea.

I think it's a very very wise choice not to make this main focus of this game to become rich, even as a side focus, it's actually probably one of the last focuses for this game. I use RuneScape a lot because that's the RPG I've played a lot, and I had a level 134 account with 200m of items. Now one day I literally just thought, I've done everything I can do, so it bored me. Plus they introduced P2W. :/