My SG wishlist

[Madoc]

Would it be possible to have the arcs determined by the physics instead of being randomized so you could have some control over them?
What's the purpose of having different arcs if they aren't determined by physics? Why is one arc not enough? Because of eye candy?

With the view and the control system you have no control over the vertical component of the arc so it varies automatically. This results in blows to different parts of the body and often arcs that have a better chance of getting past a parry or shield. The horizontal part of the arc is always similar and also controlled by your own movement. To land said hard blow with the maul you have to basically draw an arc with the cursor in good synchrony with the animation, a well timed step or dash can add further force. You can really see and almost feel the weapon gaining momentum as you do so, it's not just a matter of 1+1 = 2. This becomes harder to do and less important as weapons get faster and lighter but is always a factor, a badly timed step or turn will often result in removing much needed force from the attack. You end up developing a repertoir of moves such as dash left swinging and then turn right with the follow up swing, there are a surpring amount of these and different ones fair better against different opponents and in different circumstances.

A new dev video is in the works and this is part of what is covered in it, the new animations and weapon types are shown and the gameplay implications demonsrtated.

 

[Tom]

A new dev video is in the works and this is part of what is covered in it, the new animations and weapon types are shown and the gameplay implications demonsrtated.

First off, it's great to see dev's responding to threads like this.

Second of all, well, when is that awesome video gonna become public, so us folks that didn't fund that much will get to bask in the glory of weapon animations, arguably the most important part of the game?

 

[ZaratanCho]

For me immersion, story/writing and the world are the most important part. Amazing combat is a bonus, but it is made this way to draw you in and immerse you better. I think combat is far from the most important component, but still very important, especially if it is made incredibly well and more realistic. It does bring alot to the whole product. ;D I mean a game with bad combat and amazing immersion and writing can still be incredible, but a game with worthless story and writing and great combat... there is nothing much to it. It will be just a game.

I just imagine how you swing your hammer(or else) hitting the knee area and toppling the enemy. Definitily looking forward to the combat immensely. Arena style thing is a must. ;D Every game must have an arena. ;D

 

[Komuflage]

For me immersion, story/writing and the world are the most important part. Amazing combat is a bonus, but it is made this way to draw you in and immerse you better. I think combat is far from the most important component, but still very important, especially if it is made incredibly well and more realistic. It does bring alot to the whole product. ;D I mean a game with bad combat and amazing immersion and writing can still be incredible, but a game with worthless story and writing and great combat... there is nothing much to it. It will be just a game.

I just imagine how you swing your hammer(or else) hitting the knee area and toppling the enemy. Definitily looking forward to the combat immensely. Arena style thing is a must. ;D Every game must have an arena. ;D

Oblivion = Lame combat, Awesome Story = Awesome game.
Demon's souls = Not much of a story/writing, Awesome combat = Awesome game.

Now ofc this is just my opinion.
But I think that whatever is most important for the game is what kind of game it's.
For instance and FPS like BF or Arma, I'm not very interested in the story, it's all about the vehicle and combat mechanics.
In a game like Baldur's Gate, story is everything, I play that game due to the immersive story, and the choices (that actually matter) a player can make.
What makes me love Demon's Souls, is that the story seems kind of "old school adventure game". It's pretty much. A king went insane, brought demons to the kingdom, and you've to kill him and bring back peace.
However the combat is imo amazing which is why I played that game for such a long time.

 

[Zaratan Cho]

Yes, games that are made just to fight can be great as far as games, but what i consider a really great product is something with great writing and intellect in the story and situations, where you make hard choices and you really have to think outside of the "just a game" aspect. Something that you can learn from, it depends on how much you read into things personally. And games that are just combat don't offer this to me. I am currently trying to play hawken, which is multiplayer deathmatch with mechs, and i consider it a great game and i am having alot of fun. Don't get me the wrong way. ;D This is why I am very hyped for the new Torment game, because they have alot of amazing writers that will reflect there own different perspectives and ideas in the game itself.

 

[Madoc]

Here's a little list of things I either want or don't want in SG (mostly don't ).
Some things are already covered I know, I'm just including them for fun =).

I commented on the RNG because it's quite a complex topic, everything else, as ZaratanCho said, sounds like SG.

 

[Pilluminati]

With the view and the control system you have no control over the vertical component of the arc so it varies automatically. This results in blows to different parts of the body and often arcs that have a better chance of getting past a parry or shield. The horizontal part of the arc is always similar and also controlled by your own movement. To land said hard blow with the maul you have to basically draw an arc with the cursor in good synchrony with the animation, a well timed step or dash can add further force. You can really see and almost feel the weapon gaining momentum as you do so, it's not just a matter of 1+1 = 2. This becomes harder to do and less important as weapons get faster and lighter but is always a factor, a badly timed step or turn will often result in removing much needed force from the attack. You end up developing a repertoir of moves such as dash left swinging and then turn right with the follow up swing, there are a surpring amount of these and different ones fair better against different opponents and in different circumstances.

A new dev video is in the works and this is part of what is covered in it, the new animations and weapon types are shown and the gameplay implications demonsrtated.

Yes, but what determines the vertical part? "automatically" doesn't say much I'm afraid. Is it random or does the stance of your character play a part in it? Maybe a combination of both?

Because if your stance plays a part it means you have indirect control over it.

Indirect control != RNG;

I just want to add that I have no doubts SG will be an awesome game, even if there's a bit of RNG.
The combat already looks a thousand times better than in any RPG I've ever seen, even with the earliest animations from the kickstarter videos. It's just something I feel doesn't add anything to the game, letting the outcome be determined by a die instead of player actions is "bullshit" imo.

I commented on the RNG because it's quite a complex topic, everything else, as ZaratanCho said, sounds like SG.

Thanks a lot for replying. Already knew that many of the stuff sounded like SG, I just included them to get things straight (because you never know ).

 

[the0thMonkey]

Yes, but what determines the vertical part? "automatically" doesn't say much I'm afraid. Is it random or does the stance of your character play a part in it? Maybe a combination of both?

Because if your stance plays a part it means you have indirect control over it.

Indirect control != RNG;

I just want to add that I have no doubts SG will be an awesome game, even if there's a bit of RNG.
The combat already looks a thousand times better than in any RPG I've ever seen, even with the earliest animations from the kickstarter videos. It's just something I feel doesn't add anything to the game, letting the outcome be determined by a die instead of player actions is "bullshit" imo.


Thanks a lot for replying. Already knew that many of the stuff sounded like SG, I just included them to get things straight (because you never know ).

Just a couple of points about RNG used in swing mechanics. Firstly, having the arc be totally determined by a variety of factors such as the player's stance, the enemy's relative position, etc. would be a lot more difficult than randomly selecting a swing direction. This in itself is not a deterring factor. BME have been doing many really difficult things, and they are obviously not afraid of a challenge. But, the question becomes, is it worth it? I think the answer is no. If the arc selection was truly realistic, it would take into account many factors, probably far too many for the player to keep track of. As a result, the final swing direction would still be a surprise, and if that's the case, why not use an RNG? Lastly, as was mentioned earlier, the result might look better. If you performed an attack and ended up in a position similar to the one that you started with, your next attack might be the same. And it would be fairly immersion breaking to see the same attack repeatedly.

Basically, it could be done but the benefits aren't worth it. Just my thoughts

 

[Pilluminati]

Just a couple of points about RNG used in swing mechanics. Firstly, having the arc be totally determined by a variety of factors such as the player's stance, the enemy's relative position, etc. would be a lot more difficult than randomly selecting a swing direction. This in itself is not a deterring factor. BME have been doing many really difficult things, and they are obviously not afraid of a challenge. But, the question becomes, is it worth it? I think the answer is no. If the arc selection was truly realistic, it would take into account many factors, probably far too many for the player to keep track of. As a result, the final swing direction would still be a surprise, and if that's the case, why not use an RNG? Lastly, as was mentioned earlier, the result might look better. If you performed an attack and ended up in a position similar to the one that you started with, your next attack might be the same. And it would be fairly immersion breaking to see the same attack repeatedly.

Basically, it could be done but the benefits aren't worth it. Just my thoughts

I completely agree. I just hope that if it's there, it's there for a good reason. And if it can be avoided, it should. But only if the effort is very small.
It won't make or break the game, just a bonus.