Sad update...

[Achul]

Here's my two cents on the matter. I've sunk around 150 hours into the game beating the single player 3 times and having a full master roster in my arena, with my main wearing full exceptional plate and the rest wearing normal or higher quality. At first I found the game quite challenging, like most of us, and now I'm extremely consistent with my footwork/precision leaving myself feeling slightly underwhelmed. However, I understand that this is just the tip of the iceberg, and that the developers don't want to deter new players through unreasonable, unforgiving mechanics. As previous comments mentioned once new levels are added we are going to see a progressively more difficult game which will satiate us hardcore gamers.

In regards to the unconscious mechanic I do think it is a good thing. You're discounting the learning curve associated with examina and you're looking at it from the perspective of an experienced player. I too want more challenging content but I also want to see this game succeed above a niche crowd. Again, you still can die if your healthbar is consumed by red damage, and body looting will be implemented, as stated by many commentors. Don't be so quick to write off this game as being easy mode, because it certainly isn't. Although some of us may share your sentiments there is still a large percentage of players that feel very differently.

Patience young one! You may find that future content exceeds your expectation, causing you to reevaluate your views.

This is a good post but let me ask you. Why do "we want the game to succeed beyond a niche crowd"?

The market is not infinite. There are different crowds. You can make games that appeal to a large crowd and compete with huge companies like Bethesda or you can corner the market in a niche crowd, for example hard core RPG enthusiasts.

Why do we want the casuals to influence the path this game takes?
Imagine with perma death in the future and the inclussion of let's say complicated traps.

Now in most games nobody cares about traps. In most games you will just reload if you get hit too bad by one. And BAM you've just ruined that part of the game now. A trap is really only challenging if the first time.

By killing perma death they are killing a mindset. A miindset that made the game exciting for me, just like I Ejoyed games like the older versions of Tibia, Ultima Online and Eve Online but can't enjoy games like WoW precisely because of the lack of consequences for your actons.

Thought you will be happy to know that in Sui Generis (which everything in exanima is developed for) you wont only have the KO mechanics, but also a respawn mechanic for when you die (its part of the lore, its the only thing that makes you special compared to other npc's)

Well take for example Planescape torment. A game made long ago. Death there was part of life. Despite infinite lives I felt more obliged not to die than in rougelikes with permanent death because I knew (or I thought more precisely) that part of my mind and soul was being taken away. Deaths even had an effect on your character interactions.

Depending on how they develop Sui the system of respawns could influence a dynamic world in ways that still keep it interesting. But that remains to be seen. In a dungeon crawler like Exanima it just doesn't make sense that who ever just fought you doesn't kill you and instead just PARTLY loots you. It requires some serious suspension of disbelief.

ps: just a short story. With my father we played a lot family console game, and there is a game called 1942. We couldnt get to the end back then. My father time to time played that game over the years without luck, he could do good scores and all but not reaching the end of it. So after maybe about 15 years later (aprox, a bit more) i felt nostalgic and downloaded the family simulator for pc and played that game. My father aproach to watch me play. So almost next to the end (didnt know about it) and with the last life, i get straight to the end.

I really don't get the hate against you Bear. That's a fantastic story and encapsulates my feeling too. I have a similar memory but it doesn't concern death, it has more to do with a puzzle we couldn't solve. And then of course there is Super Mario World 3!

Oh my god, whether with friends or alone. It took like 4-5 hours or more to complete. You'd have to leave the console on over the night. NO FUCKING SAVES HERE SON.
THe intensity, the fucking RAGE if you or your buddy died just before the end on one of those huge koopa-fort maps like the tank battle map. Though the worst for me was always the later maps of World 7 with the enless rows of flesh eating plants.

I also had a game similiar to 1942 called Bomber Raid on Sega Master. I can't even remember if I ever beat it. Today it's so much easier with Save States and emulators. It's just not the same thing. It's like when the internet became cheap and Wiki-sites came up.
All those quests and the credit and sense of pride you could feel about being the first one to figure it out went out of the window because the info was all up there for anyone to read.

 

[Hedgehog-of-Fog]

It's quite sad how some of you have ganged up on the OP like bullies decrying his ill manners, forgetting that the first post that replied to him was basically one of "gtfo if you don't like it".

Well... maybe because he don't owned this forum, and "like or gtfo" isn't great method of relations on forum. BTW the same clische could be applied to his point - "Sad update" wtf, gtfo! Now you see it?
And no - we don't ganged up on this sweetheart - we're just arguing.

 

[Syllabear3]

I really don't get the hate against you Bear. That's a fantastic story and encapsulates my feeling too. I have a similar memory but it doesn't concern death, it has more to do with a puzzle we couldn't solve. And then of course there is Super Mario World 3!

Oh my god, whether with friends or alone. It took like 4-5 hours or more to complete. You'd have to leave the console on over the night. NO FUCKING SAVES HERE SON.
THe intensity, the fucking RAGE if you or your buddy died just before the end on one of those huge koopa-fort maps like the tank battle map. Though the worst for me was always the later maps of World 7 with the enless rows of flesh eating plants.

I also had a game similiar to 1942 called Bomber Raid on Sega Master. I can't even remember if I ever beat it. Today it's so much easier with Save States and emulators. It's just not the same thing. It's like when the internet became cheap and Wiki-sites came up.
All those quests and the credit and sense of pride you could feel about being the first one to figure it out went out of the window because the info was all up there for anyone to read.

We are living dark times in gaming my friend. Everything is nerf and bad choices that break the enjoyment of games.
Just like right now, in warframe, a big mess with a recent update that upset most everyone. I landed a week ago in that game and i could feel the deep change, and i didnt like to the point im looking for another game.

But talking about Exanima, its just an alpha. You test the game, give some feedback and they cook it for sui generis. Thats what i didnt understood back then (in this thread).
Anyways, a hardcore mode should be added, as many isometric games out there (d2, sacred underworld etc.). Knock down is kinda pointless, because if you are trapped with big monsters around, you will get slaped each time you wake up until you die. You will enjoy how painfully slow your character die, at least.
This game has much potential, it will be nice to see it finished.


Meanwhile ill have fun playing "Loren the amazon princess" (dont ask how it landed in my steam), maybe?

 

[Achul]

Luckily the worst nerfing doesn't happen in games like this. It's multiplayer games, especially those turning or having turned into F2P models. God, the constant releases, the constant rebalances, the endless circle jerk of opinions people have about their favourite hero or class or what ever it may be. Made me sick of being a gamer tbh.

Haven't bought a premium multiplayer title in years now. I think my last was Starcraft Heart of The Swarm.

 

[Tyon]

The devs planned on adding a knock out mechanic a very long time ago. It makes sense and adds more reason to the yellow/red health system. You can still die very quickly if an unprotected part of your body (such as your neck) is hit with a very sharp weapon, and you can still die instantly if you fall down a pit so traps are still effective. I don't understand what's so exciting about having your character's progress completely removed because you got hit by a fucking bedpan or crutch too hard in the head.

There will be many more consequences for being knocked out because the mechanic is still a WIP. Enemies might drag you somewhere, you might lose valuable loot such as potions or armor, maybe you really pissed an enemy off and they decide to finish you off while you're unconscious. It makes perfect sense to me that someone would choose not to kill you and just loots your armor, believe it or not humans are quite reluctant to take another human beings life. Besides, what will you do when you wake up and they've taken your armor and weapons? Fisticuff them to death?

It really doesn't make the game that much easier except in the first three levels. You can still get one-shotted by the boss golem even if you wear full plate armor, sir can still stand over your unconscious body and fuck you up and humiliate you every time you awake if he's pissed enough, the normal golems can one-shot you with a well placed strike to the neck, and it will only get harder as levels progress.

 

[Syllabear3]

The devs planned on adding a knock out mechanic a very long time ago. It makes sense and adds more reason to the yellow/red health system. You can still die very quickly if an unprotected part of your body (such as your neck) is hit with a very sharp weapon, and you can still die instantly if you fall down a pit so traps are still effective. I don't understand what's so exciting about having your character's progress completely removed because you got hit by a fucking bedpan or crutch too hard in the head.

There will be many more consequences for being knocked out because the mechanic is still a WIP. Enemies might drag you somewhere, you might lose valuable loot such as potions or armor, maybe you really pissed an enemy off and they decide to finish you off while you're unconscious. It makes perfect sense to me that someone would choose not to kill you and just loots your armor, believe it or not humans are quite reluctant to take another human beings life. Besides, what will you do when you wake up and they've taken your armor and weapons? Fisticuff them to death?

It really doesn't make the game that much easier except in the first three levels. You can still get one-shotted by the boss golem even if you wear full plate armor, sir can still stand over your unconscious body and fuck you up and humiliate you every time you awake if he's pissed enough, the normal golems can one-shot you with a well placed strike to the neck, and it will only get harder as levels progress.

Hp drops a lot and barely worth keep going... i mean right now. I understand what you and other said.

 

[Achul]

The devs planned on adding a knock out mechanic a very long time ago. It makes sense and adds more reason to the yellow/red health system. You can still die very quickly if an unprotected part of your body (such as your neck) is hit with a very sharp weapon, and you can still die instantly if you fall down a pit so traps are still effective. I don't understand what's so exciting about having your character's progress completely removed because you got hit by a fucking bedpan or crutch too hard in the head.

There will be many more consequences for being knocked out because the mechanic is still a WIP. Enemies might drag you somewhere, you might lose valuable loot such as potions or armor, maybe you really pissed an enemy off and they decide to finish you off while you're unconscious. It makes perfect sense to me that someone would choose not to kill you and just loots your armor, believe it or not humans are quite reluctant to take another human beings life. Besides, what will you do when you wake up and they've taken your armor and weapons? Fisticuff them to death?

It really doesn't make the game that much easier except in the first three levels. You can still get one-shotted by the boss golem even if you wear full plate armor, sir can still stand over your unconscious body and fuck you up and humiliate you every time you awake if he's pissed enough, the normal golems can one-shot you with a well placed strike to the neck, and it will only get harder as levels progress.

The whole logic of Exanima is in a world of its own. The premise of semi-aggressive quasi-undead beings that may or may not attack you, may or may not finnish you off...I mean you have to accept some things I guess to make it work.

But when it comes to your lost point I'd much rather have checkpoints than knockouts. Maybe a few checkpoints and a continue for every checkpoint you reach.

Beyond the whole perma death thing I liked the dynamic of the two healthbars. Bosses that one shot you aren't too great for a perma death game or even a "knock out" mechanic. Patterns, dodges, varying tactics and a better special boss AI would be more fun imo.


It's easy to imagine some sort of leaver system where you have to run around to different edges of the area and pull leavers that shoot out some energy shocks or arrows or what not at him while dodging him for example.


I don't know why the devs wouldn't want to continue the checkpoint system in a dungeon crawler such as this.

 

[Tyon]

Checkpoints don't make as much sense within the game world as being knocked unconscious. There are early checkpoints for the first 3 levels because they are supposed to be more of a training phase for newer players, it's confirmed that there will be no more checkpoints after the portal, if you die on level 13 then you will respawn all the way back to the portal.

Tough enemies that you can fight such as the ones in level 5 are fine in my opinion, you can easily avoid almost all of them once you understand how the token system works. I think it encourages players to think more differently and not rush things given the consequences they might face. The AI for all enemies is being worked on and will surely improve.

 

[Vold]

The OP has a point IMO, the game is much less unforgiving. But, we can't judge the decision because we have no clue about what's going to happen next.
I think that we will be loving this feature once thaumaturgy gets implemented, because we will get unconscious, eventually, no matter what we do.
Also, if I remember well, there have been some discussion about different game modes (at least for Sui Generis); So, who knows, maybe they will create an insanely hardcore mode where unconsciousness or will mean permadeath.

 

[burgzaza]

I'll just say that the first OP posts planted that image in my head, of the creatures that just beated you, would choose to continue the beating, or not, and I like the idea. Some bad hits in the head and your character would die, but if the creature misses some hits, or just hits armor, you'll live. I'm talking about "brainless" or wild creatures of course. An intelligent creature that really hates you, would maybe have a higher chance to just finish you.
Could be an enjoyable kind of mechanic, to watch at least.
And that's why I love the unconcious mechanic, lots of potential !

 

[MrApophos]

Besides, what will you do when you wake up and they've taken your armor and weapons? Fisticuff them to death? - Tyon

Well... yes. I would fist them hard and fast.

 

[MindSliver]

Calm yourself Achul haha. If it's any consolation when you get knocked out, you take some red damage even through armor, you hit the ground and everything goes black... When you wake up... more often than not the guy that just bludgeoned you is still hanging around and by the time you can scramble to your feet he's already bludgeoned you back to the beginning of the game... it's quite exciting trying to make your escape though when everything you had in your hands is on the floor XD.

 

[Firebat]

Tipicall answer "you dont like you dont play". You are added now to my ignore list.

I dont care if they thought it before times (ive already readed that excuse), it adds easy to the game. And thats not good because the game is not that hard.

"I ate my bro cookies. Is not because i want to leave him without cookies but ive been planning to eat them long time before. Ask my grand ma, she knows that i allways eat the cookies".
Practically what i just readed.


I dont give a flying f about what you think about me. Its all about enjoying the game, and being invincible is not it.

dumbass.

 

[MegaFarinato]

I think I'd bet my left arm that devs will, by all means, stay away from the idea of not having consequences for your actions. Doing extremely dangerous stuff should carry out extreme chance of lethal damage if the goal is to make meaningful the interactions with the world they present us.

 

[Syllabear3]

I think I'd bet my left arm that devs will, by all means, stay away from the idea of not having consequences for your actions. Doing extremely dangerous stuff should carry out extreme chance of lethal damage if the goal is to make meaningful the interactions with the world they present us.

I am okay with it. But sometimes i think when you are critical damaged after a knock down and you know that you already smoked all pots, and you know you wont find any new pot... you are extending your character life more than necesary. A few hits and you are done.
Lets say you survived 4 act with 1/10 hp bar. You will think "heck i made it! I just need a pot". Explore half map without luck and accidentally step on golem tile and bam, you are dead (or any other mob...). You'll wish you died before instead of wasting time just to die. Thats why i think that when you are critical hit, at least in exanima, it is best to suicide and start fresh and be more careful.

Checkpoints don't make as much sense within the game world as being knocked unconscious. There are early checkpoints for the first 3 levels because they are supposed to be more of a training phase for newer players, it's confirmed that there will be no more checkpoints after the portal, if you die on level 13 then you will respawn all the way back to the portal.

Tough enemies that you can fight such as the ones in level 5 are fine in my opinion, you can easily avoid almost all of them once you understand how the token system works. I think it encourages players to think more differently and not rush things given the consequences they might face. The AI for all enemies is being worked on and will surely improve.

When you open the game you click "Arena" and then "Practice". You will find two options "novice" and "expert", where you can train without consecuences. Stop giving wrong information, thanks you.

dumbass.

Your mom _l_
Quoting an old comment, dumbshit.

 

[Tyon]

When you open the game you click "Arena" and then "Practice". You will find two options "novice" and "expert", where you can train without consecuences. Stop giving wrong information, thanks you.

WTF are you even talking about? I never said there are no consequences in the story mode, I said the current system allows players to AVOID those consequences if they stop and think for a second, that's what the token system encourages, it requires players to think differently about how they navigate the level. The developers are trying to make a non-linear game that isn't just about mindlessly fighting every single thing you come across because "muh difficulty". I don't even see what you're trying to argue at this point honestly. Also, stop trying to twist my words just so you can completely dismiss it with a snarky one-liner because that's rude as hell, thank you.

 

[Syllabear3]

WTF are you even talking about? I never said there are no consequences in the story mode, I said the current system allows players to AVOID those consequences if they stop and think for a second, that's what the token system encourages, it requires players to think differently about how they navigate the level. The developers are trying to make a non-linear game that isn't just about mindlessly fighting every single thing you come across because "muh difficulty". I don't even see what you're trying to argue at this point honestly. Also, stop trying to twist my words just so you can completely dismiss it with a snarky one-liner because that's rude as hell, thank you.

"here are early checkpoints for the first 3 levels because they are supposed to be more of a training phase for newer players"
The 4 first levels are about fighting... I just said where you train to fight.

Even in the fifth you will fight against those golems, even steping outside the tile it activates the golems i dont know how, so you better be prepared.

ps: you sound really mad. And mad people usually is bad.

 

[Tyon]

"here are early checkpoints for the first 3 levels because they are supposed to be more of a training phase for newer players"
The 4 first levels are about fighting... I just said where you train to fight.

Even in the fifth you will fight against those golems, even steping outside the tile it activates the golems i dont know how, so you better be prepared.

ps: you sound really mad. And mad people usually is bad.

Do you really think you can properly train for everything that you will come across in the first 3 levels from just playing the practice arenas?

"The first four levels are about fighting" Not true at all, if that were the case you would be equipped with a weapon and armor from the start, there wouldn't be any significant amount of lore and all the rooms in the story mode would be geared around fighting, with many large open spaces. There's already a game mode that does all what I just described; it's called arena mode. The entirety of the story ode is about surviving, exploring, AND fighting sometimes. If you like to just fight in the story mmode then that's YOUR preference, stop trying to force it upon other people and demanding that the entire story mode change, there's already an arena mode where you can go and fight to your heart's content.

I'm not mad, just annoyed that you decide to reply to a month old post of mine with a low-effort post that merely dismisses all my points and doesn't bother to articulate anything, it also sounded very rude and condescending. Stop trying to twist my words, or better yet; stop replying to me at all because you're annoying.

 

[Chase]

This thread really did not need to be necro'd

 

[Syllabear3]

Do you really think you can properly train for everything that you will come across in the first 3 levels from just playing the practice arenas?

"The first four levels are about fighting" Not true at all, if that were the case you would be equipped with a weapon and armor from the start, there wouldn't be any significant amount of lore and all the rooms in the story mode would be geared around fighting, with many large open spaces. There's already a game mode that does all what I just described; it's called arena mode. The entirety of the story ode is about surviving, exploring, AND fighting sometimes. If you like to just fight in the story mmode then that's YOUR preference, stop trying to force it upon other people and demanding that the entire story mode change, there's already an arena mode where you can go and fight to your heart's content.

I'm not mad, just annoyed that you decide to reply to a month old post of mine with a low-effort post that merely dismisses all my points and doesn't bother to articulate anything, it also sounded very rude and condescending. Stop trying to twist my words, or better yet; stop replying to me at all because you're annoying.

Thats how i did it... i started, the first zombie fucked me up, went to train in the arena and rekted everything up to Sir.
Maze wasnt even a challenge so, wont talk about it.

You are not annoyed, you are mad. And my point is valid: you dont have any training phase in the first three levels... you train in the arena. You dont train to find tokens.

This thread really did not need to be necro'd

I agree.

Please any mod just close this thread, thanks.