Some possible improvements

TURBOBRUH

Member
So I've had my taste of 0.6 and first thing I'd like to say: thats quite an impressive AI right there. The "zombies" now actually run away when damaged (some of them) and feel more diverse in their approach. I can just walk by the first zombie room guy, take armor from the chest, and go out closing the door. Even bump into him slightly (without weapon equipped). The saw guy however starts chasing me from the moment I open the door.
Hell, one of the coward zombies got a sucker punch on me. He was running into darkness, so i tried to equip my torch, but I somehow managed to turn my back on it, and he decided it's his life's ( ha, see what I did there?) opportunity. Ended up with him being undead and me being justdead.
Those are some of the smartest zombies I've seen. Can't say I'm having too much fun with it, cuz I'm getting owned even more now. And speaking of that, did they receive some buff? They feel a bit more sturdy now. One took 3 hard axe hits (1 to the head, 2 to the body) and few minor bumps before he went down, while I whacked another one like 20 times with a stick. They also have pretty good timing and coordination to be honest. Some seem about as good as later novice arena fighters.

But I digress, the few improvements that I came up with today are:
1) Difficulty levels I don't see any cons here tbh. Mere mortals like me could explore a little more, while the pr0 players could have some more challange.

It would work like this- there could be few different modes, 5 lets say. The current difficulty would be the medium, default mode. As you go up, the aggression of the monsters go up. Along with their numbers and equipment. (so as a reward, being able to get better gear)
So where previously was one agressive zombie with a saw, we could have 2 of them, one having some armor. The 100% passive one could be partially passive. On the highest mode all of them could be agressive. Take that you 1337 players! >:D
The lower you go, the less zombies in the dungeon, and the lower their aggression level. More zombies with a stick, less with a proper weapon. Maybe some unarmed ones. That would go with monsters making more mistakes, slower reaction time and being less effective in combat in general.
It WOULD NOT AFFECT:
-enemies stats (hp, build, etc)
-player stats
-damage dealt
-damage received
Same for arena - higher difficulty, more skilled opponents. With current system as a middle.

2) Arena tweaks:
-gear received from slain opponents should be forever accessible from character creation menu. There is literally no point in having to get it again, because you closed the game.
-ability to start arena from the first enemy that damaged you lethal damage) in your best playthrough.

Lets say your best game ended at opponent 6 (he killed you)
But you killed 2 first opponents without taking any lethal damage.
So next time you start the game, u jump right into opponent 3, as he was the first do deal lethal damage to you.
Then you get better playthrough, and the first enemy to damage you is number 4. So you start new game from number 4. With an opption to toggle. You click on the box and theres list of arena enemies for the difficulty mode. You can chose one from those that you defeated with no lethal damage taken.
Killing the first 5 guys 20 times over because you cant handle number 6 is no fun.

3) Fire :
Torches burn. So should wood, clothes and undead flesh when they make contact. You should be able to ignite the enemies with your torch. Not 100% of time, but if you get a nice full whack at their head and the flames meet thair hair, the smartass-zombie-fuckers should burn. Same with body/leg hits if theyre wearing clothes.
 

Greenbrog

Insider
They aren't zombies. And I assure you, a "good" weapon and a couple "solid" shots and all the undead go right down, even the "good" ones.
Difficulty levels aren't going to happen.
Arena is getting huge overhaul next patch.
Torches: this all makes sense, balancing it would be difficult and also difficult to justify it not ever burning out, especially when used as a weapon, and since BM has a stance against fuel/food, this already probably has a happy medium. Fire damage is in the game in other ways though.
 

TURBOBRUH

Member
Thats why I used " ". And some seem more sturdy then others.
And why will there be no difficulty levels?
Good thing about arena though.
As for fire damage it's kinda dodgy atm. The fire pit deals damage but does not ignite them.
Also why not put more torches in the dungen?
I think torches that burn out and set enemies on fire would be better than what we have now.
Or the could give us one of those magic lamps that fell of the wall.
It kinda get's in the way of immersion those torches.
 

Greenbrog

Insider
Yes, gear and body type can greatly effect how study they are. They are actually wearing and using what ever gear they have AND big fatbody type have more HP (needs to be confirmed, I read people doing tests though, and it certainly seems this way).

I don't remember why no difficulty levels, but I wouldn't mind if it could be much harder. As for any easier setting; god I hope not. The game isn't being made to be beaten, it's being made to be made. Mobs don't exist to just be killed, they exist in a "believable" world. Just beating the game, just surviving is supposed to be hard, the game up to now IS the easy mode and tutorial. But if getting a harder mode puts in an easy mode, I'd rather have neither. Also in talking with Madoc and how his development process works, it would be massive work to make different difficulty levels.

I believe more light sources and torches will be added. But frankly the immersion gained from getting fucked by a horde of asshole wielding torches would suck. And it doesn't sound fun. I'm not interested in being set on fire because I missed a swing with the torch, or I blocked a hit with the torch or because of these "bonus" mechanics that a wave of ten torch wielders set me on fire because I took 1 or 2 glancing blows.
 

TURBOBRUH

Member
I don't remember why no difficulty levels, but I wouldn't mind if it could be much harder. As for any easier setting; god I hope not

So whats your problem with someone else playing on lower difficulty? It's not like YOU would have to choose it.
You would get a better challange and a splendid feeling of superiority over those pathetic maggots not playing "they the only right way it's meant to be".

Also in talking with Madoc and how his development process works, it would be massive work to make different difficulty levels.

Thats a more logical argument.

But frankly the immersion gained from getting fucked by a horde of asshole wielding torches would suck

Where is that horde?

a wave of ten torch wielders set me on fire because I took 1 or 2 glancing blows.

Even if there was such terrible 'torch army' it would not work if you wore metal armor. Last time I checked, steel does not catch fire if you put a lit match on it.
 

Greenbrog

Insider
You don't "only" wear metal armour. And I don't have a problem with people playing on easier difficulties. This game though isn't being made to be beaten. It is however being made to be believable and playing on easy mode, removing all risk is less believable than a force push. You are supposed to FEEL like there are repercussions to your choices, it sounds like the game is doing exactly that. The game is very beatable right now with no red damage taken. The spirit of the game is, survive, and fighting isn't always the best way to do that, sometimes it's not achievable no matter what. I understand that the balance of fun vs believable needs to taken into consideration. So before you claim I'm being condescending, the game hasn't even gotten that hard yet. If the game is hard now, it's player skill that needs to be improved, not watering down the game.

I'm not going to text wall. But it sounds like you're missing the point if you feel the game needs an easy mode, it's supposed to feel hard and it's supposed to REQUIRE player skill. Progression is never supposed to feel like, well I'm level 10 I get to beat this part, you have to earn it every time.

The torch thing, well, that has room to debate though.
 

NachoDawg

Member
I'd mind if there were difficulties. I'd mind a great deal actually. Even if we completely remove the community/other people from the formula of why i care, and just put me on an empty planet alone with the game.

I don't think I have a great answer for why exactly, but I guess it has a lot to do with effort & reward, and how the game has a narrative that is greatly influences by what I dare to risk.

Effort & Reward
- I don't want to make things unpleasurably hard for myself, so I wont pick the hardest difficulty

- I don't want the game to pose little to few challenges. Why would I play a game that constantly says "good job nachodawg, you did the thing!" when I use 0 effort. So I won't pick the easiest

- I don't want to struggle with something, succeed and then think "shesh, I could have saved 20 minutes if I just clicked a button in the menu", so I'm not comfortable with a medium difficulty.

this is mostly a universal school of thought I have to mostly any game


Narrative is important
The fact is that difficulty settings are archaically tied to games that have high-score features. In modern times it has been tied to the reward you get for succeeding at something, like more xp or better loot. Or used in games where the narrative is not affected by the difficulty.

In Examina, the narrative is greatly effected by the difficulty, and vice versa. The difficulty a scenario puts forth is everything for whether the story develops or not. You don't go into a room full of monsters you think you can't defeat, so you don't get whatever content was in that room (which often include lore in this game). Your skill and strategy has real consequences and that's a testimony to the devs commitment to the narrative.


TL;DR: it's an anti-game, learn to love it or perish :p
 
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TURBOBRUH

Member
- I don't want to make things unpleasurably hard for myself, so I wont pick the hardest difficulty

- I don't want the game to pose little to few challenges. Why would I play a game that constantly says "good job nachodawg, you did the thing!" when I use 0 effort. So I won't pick the easiest

- I don't want to struggle with something, succeed and then think "shesh, I could have saved 20 minutes if I just clicked a button in the menu", so I'm not comfortable with a medium difficulty.

You said it yourself, you would not choose new difficulties. And if they called medium one the original difficulty intended? (meaning no changes whatsoever, as I desribed it in the beggining) Would that make it right?


Anyway, if I get it correct, you're afraid, that if there were difficulties, you would risk giving into the temptation and spoiling your fun as a result? And how is that different from looking for some tips/maps on forums if you're stuck somewhere? Because it's in the game menu?

I could have saved 20 minutes if I just clicked a button in the menu

You could have saved 20 minutes if you just checked that one fan-made map instead of getting lost in the dungeon. [random , non-personal example]

Or is because if you found out, that you can't handle that difficulty, you have to start fresh?

That's not much different from dying and starting over in one, universal difficulty.

Also, I've seen this "spirit of the game", "thats how it should look", "and thats anti-game" argument quite often here.
I find it rather vague at best; especially if said feature is optional and does not affect the guy whatsoever (if he does not take said option).
 

Solinarius

Member
Difficulty levels have no real value in a game world that is built heavily around organic and believable dynamics. From my point of view, the difficulty is meant to be as hands-off and natural as possible. It's certainly not perfect right now since you can crack open someone's skull (basically) with an overhead chop from a two-handed broadsword and they won't die. However, having difficulty settings would make the intended experience arbitrary, and thus, break the game for anyone that chooses something other than "medium" difficulty. The world of Exanima and Sui Generis is as it is meant to be. Again, I could be wrong because these are my assumptions on BM's end goal.
 

NachoDawg

Member
Anyway, if I get it correct, you're afraid, that if there were difficulties, you would risk giving into the temptation and spoiling your fun as a result? And how is that different from looking for some tips/maps on forums if you're stuck somewhere? Because it's in the game menu?

Well, imagine a game that has cheat codes you can look up on the internet. Then imagine a game with cheat codes under "options" in the menu.. The first one has a larger barrier between making the game easier, as access to making your game easier surely does affect how natural or cheaty the notion feels

(btw, you should put reply quotes in QUOTE tags, not SPOILER tags :) )
 
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