Sui Generis? What the heck is that?

[Chris.J0621]

After a few days of scouring the internet for absolutely any game I have not previously heard of looking for *something*, I have finally found something remarkable. Something that is so remarkable in fact, I decided to shell out a bit of cash to do something I have never done before, not because I don't believe in supporting a product, but because I am weary of big developers making promises they can't--or won't--keep. After setting aside my idea of the relative lack of control of good footwork (given its ongoing debate), I came to love the combat in this game. Further, I feel with a bit more polishing (which I'm sure is going to happen) in the footwork category, as well as the animation category, this will truly be something unique, bold, and extraordinary.

So, without further adieu: thank you for being different, and making something fun!

Also, I haven't found anyone discussing this, but has there been any discussion about perhaps having a keybind set to be able to start a swing in a different direction? I realize clicking on the opposite side of your opponent is how you currently do it, however I can only get it to work by clicking way off to the side, resulting in a wild flailing of limbs and thereby throwing myself off balance. Chivalry (the game) did this, and I think having it as an option may make combat a little more fluid for some. If this has already been brought up, I apologize.

TLDR: There are less words here than my 15 minute in-class writing assignments covering 100 pages of obcsure historical text, so don't be a lazy ass.

P.S. In case it's still up for debate, I feel that having--relatively--significant more control over your feet would help with the "clunky" feel some may have with the combat. Naturally, of course, the AI should have the same control. Or perhaps, start off with a significant increase, and then slow it down with the more armor you wear? Just a thought.

 

[Vold]

I'm glad you found SG, prepare your mind to be blown away!

In this thread you will find the discussion about the beta combat demo; and here.

P.S: probably none will answer your concerns about the combat demo here, because it is supposed to be done in the insiders forum.

 

[Chris.J0621]

In retrospect, that makes more sense (about the demo). Thanks!
I hope I'm not being too revealing here, but be prepared to catch a maul to your face (and watch your enemy catch a claymore to his) repeatedly! It's so satisfying when you nail that perfect backstep to land a parry and then nail the riposte in the throat! xD
Cheers!

Oh, and about the game in general, being general discussion and all... I absolutely love everything about this game, just watching all the videos, I know I will. The art style is perfect, there's no high fantasy shenanigans, everything seems very genuine and gritty; frankly, the texture quality, shadow/lighting, and even the hair quality itself is absolutely stunning, let alone for an isometric RPG. This is the game Diablo should've aspired to become. But that's another matter.
What do you think about the direction so far from what you know? (I promise, other than playing the combat beta, I don't know any more than you, lol)

 

[Vold]

I suggest you to do what I have been doing since I joined the forum (3 weeks ago or so), first of all watch all the videos and read the about section. Then read all the threads and posts written by the developers (starting with the development update #1 and #2), and all the sticky threads. Then, keep reading, there is a lot of intresting threads spread around the forums.

All I can tell you is that the game will be extraordinary!

 

[Torhque]

Welcome aboard Chris.
If they even meet half their goals for Sui Generis, we are in for a serious treat.

 

[Chris.J0621]

I've read the grand list of quotes coming from the lead dev (I think) and I have to say, I am impressed. Not even having read that, I'm still impressed by the level of polish already in the game despite a relative lack of polish in certain areas (over reaching swing etc). Now if only I can perfect parrying with two handed swords I'll be ok! Damn expert arena is whooping my ass and giving no f's. xD

 

[Tony]

I've read the grand list of quotes coming from the lead dev (I think) and I have to say, I am impressed. Not even having read that, I'm still impressed by the level of polish already in the game despite a relative lack of polish in certain areas (over reaching swing etc). Now if only I can perfect parrying with two handed swords I'll be ok! Damn expert arena is whooping my ass and giving no f's. xD

How far or how close you swing is determined by you, the player. If you're lunging forward while attacking you will have a different attack range than when standing still. Also, the further the mouse cursor is from your character the wider your arc will be because you'll rotate more. It takes a bit of practice to master but it's not as random as it might at first appear.

(Edited for clarity)

 

[Chris.J0621]

Wait, so keeping the cursor closer to your character determines swing arc? Did not know that! Does that also explain why i almost always swing for the feet? Or is that a product of something else? Thanks for the reply though! I never would've put that together!

 

[Parco]

Also, the further your mouse cursor is away from your character the wider your arc will be.

this is false isnt it? i tried testing it now and i dont see the difference in swings with the cursor far away or close to the character.

Does that also explain why i almost always swing for the feet? Or is that a product of something else?

do you move alot forward while swinging? the swings tend to go a bit downwards when moving forward, i used to lunge forward alot before crouch was implemented to get beneath shields.

 

[Chris.J0621]

this is false isnt it? i tried testing it now and i dont see the difference in swings with the cursor far away or close to the character.

do you move alot forward while swinging? the swings tend to go a bit downwards when moving forward, i used to lunge forward alot before crouch was implemented to get beneath shields.

After having tried swinging about 20 times with the cursor at different intervals, I can 99% confirm cursor distance does not affect swing arc/reach. The difference seems to be strictly from slightly turning (or greatly turning), or from lunging forward and (possibly) backward. But yes, I step forward ALOT when attacking as I usually just try to stay out of their reach when they swing so that as it's passing me, I lunge forward for a counter.

 

[Tony]

this is false isnt it? i tried testing it now and i dont see the difference in swings with the cursor far away or close to the character.

do you move alot forward while swinging? the swings tend to go a bit downwards when moving forward, i used to lunge forward alot before crouch was implemented to get beneath shields.

If the cursor is in motion and far away from your character while swinging then your character will be rotating to follow the cursor. This will cause a wide, sweeping arc. If you have the cursor closer to your character then the cursor will move very little and you'll do a very small/short arc. Also as you noted if you're moving forward or backwards it will impact the reach of your swing. To test this out simply double tap forward or backwards while swinging and the difference will be obvious.

I think you're confusing reach and arc. You won't reach further if your cursor is further away, you'll simply perform a wider arc (ex: 180 degree rotation instead of 90 degree).

(I realize my previous post wasn't very clear so I edited it to hopefully not mislead anyone)

 

[Parco]

ah yea, if the cursor is moving then i see you mean, the more you move it to the side the wider arcs you will do, but wouldnt the opposite be true then? that the closer the wider? because if you move the cursor 1 cm while close then the character has to do larger turns to look at each endpoints, but if its far away then he wont need to turn much to see each endpoint.
or am i completely missing your point here?

 

[Tony]

ah yea, if the cursor is moving then i see you mean, the more you move it to the side the wider arcs you will do, but wouldnt the opposite be true then? that the closer the wider? because if you move the cursor 1 cm while close then the character has to do larger turns to look at each endpoints, but if its far away then he wont need to turn much to see each endpoint.
or am i completely missing your point here?

If the cursor is further away then your character will "chase" it for a longer duration. If the cursor is closer then you'll rotate a shorter distance and the swing will end more abruptly. Using wide, sweeping cursor movements I can usually swing around an opponents parry in order to strike their back since I'm rotating more.

 

[Vold]

This is how I understand it:

Spoiler

• The grey circle represents the character.
• The green area represents the swing (right to left) without rotating.
• The yellow area represents the swing after rotating X degrees.
• The red thick line represents where the character is facing (pointer).
• The red thin line represents where the character is facing (pointer), after rotating X degrees.
• The character chases the pointer based on physics (there is a delay).

This helps to understand how the movement of the pointer may affect the swing.

 

[Parco]

i think i get what you mean now, but you have to be moving around then, when i was testing i was only standing still
when the cursor is close the character will turn faster and thus giving the swing more force and it will finish faster, having it far away so the character doesnt turn much will make the swing slower and will give you a longer time to move around on. so basically if standing still then having cursor close will give largest arc (and fastest swing speed) and if moving then having it far away will give the widest arc.

 

[Tony]

I made a quick video to demonstrate what I'm attempting to explain. In this video I didn't press any movement keys, only the attack button while moving the mouse cursor. Notice the difference in foot movement and hip rotation when keeping the mouse cursor close and when moving it further away? When the cursor is close the weapon's arc is about 200 degrees. When further away the arc is closer to 300 degrees since the hips are also rotating more.

Edit: I was tired and didn't realize this wasn't in the Insider forum. Removing video since it's still under NDA.

 

[Vold]

Probably we should continue this conversation in the insiders forum.

 

[Parco]

were not in the insider forum didnt even notice rly well i guess we can just finish up since its already out here
but yea, i can see where the disagreement lies, we got completely different playstyles XD
you move the cursor in a straight line from side to side, i do it in a curve around the character, so i get the same rotation while keeping the cursor close to the character.
i was thinking in the same way as Violence did:

when you said that having the cursor further away from the character would give a wider arc then i was imagining having the cursor further away in front of the character. so yea, my bad, should have realized that sooner

 

[Vold]

Read the signature.

 

[Tony]

were not in the insider forum didnt even notice rly well i guess we can just finish up since its already out here
but yea, i can see where the disagreement lies, we got completely different playstyles XD
you move the cursor in a straight line from side to side, i do it in a curve around the character, so i get the same rotation while keeping the cursor close to the character.
i was thinking in the same way as Violence did:

when you said that having the cursor further away from the character would give a wider arc then i was imagining having the cursor further away in front of the character. so yea, my bad, should have realized that sooner

I move the cursor in both directions; from side-to-side and also closer and further away depending on the situation. If I'm going to be setting up a left-to-right attack I'll tend to move it more side-to-side so that the attack just flows naturally. If I'm planning on doing an overhand strike or parry I'll keep it more in front of me. Just depends on who I'm fighting and what is going on in the fight.