Weapon sheath on the character?

[NachoDawg]

If there was a low cap on how much you can carry (which the devs said they dont want) then I know I'll just end up meta-game by for example start every dungeon quest nude so I can come out of the dungeon with as much of value as possible. The struggle for realism always has some side effects and implications on the ludomanic side of game design :/

 

[Hedgehog-of-Fog]

I saw somewhere in this forum (I can't find, sorry) post about thaumaturge ability named as "chest of void" (or similar). Maybe this will be solution for some of us, ecsept some magefobic hardcore players.

As for quantity restrictions... I'm completely disagree for this. Well, obviously, wide options are better then less options for gameplay.
If you going to restrict something then you should allow something equal. So, if you're limiting the number of portable items or types of weapons (even taking into account the planned weight of the subject), you should make solutions - such as adding pack mules, carriers of goods, freight machinery, portals, drugs, spells, etc.

And I'm endorse idea about quick-access (including hotkeys) for weapons, which are situated on belt/sheath/quivers/anything-else and displayed on ingame model of character (with a limited number of places for weapons).

 

[nrage]

If there was a low cap on how much you can carry (which the devs said they dont want) then I know I'll just end up meta-game by for example start every dungeon quest nude so I can come out of the dungeon with as much of value as possible. The struggle for realism always has some side effects and implications on the ludomanic side of game design :/

If we're going for realism by adding restrictions on weight, then why would you assume we don't go for realism with solutions to that problem? Like Hedgehog-of-Fog suggests below there are many mundane and potential magical solutions to the problems.

Having these problems and their various solutions adds richness of choice, and makes the difference between a new character and a seasoned adventurer more distinct and will give a better feeling of progress/success/achievement etc.

I saw somewhere in this forum (I can't find, sorry) post about thaumaturge ability named as "chest of void" (or similar). Maybe this will be solution for some of us, ecsept some magefobic hardcore players.

For those not wanting to play a spellcaster they can always buy an item like a "bag of holding" or one of the many possible item-that-carries-stuff variants we can dream up.

As for quantity restrictions... I'm completely disagree for this. Well, obviously, wide options are better then less options for gameplay.

Depends what you mean by gameplay; You seem to mean "flexibility" here? Having restrictions makes your choices matter more, and this is also good for gameplay. If you can always do all-the-things then any choice you make it meaningless, because you can always do-the-other-things anyway.

If you going to restrict something then you should allow something equal. So, if you're limiting the number of portable items or types of weapons (even taking into account the planned weight of the subject), you should make solutions - such as adding pack mules, carriers of goods, freight machinery, portals, drugs, spells, etc.

Definitely! And, again, this is good for gameplay. Having a carrying capacity/restriction makes items like pack mules, bags of holding, etc much more valuable and this adds a richness to the whole experience. There is nothing worse than reaching a place where you don't need any more loot..

 

[Hedgehog-of-Fog]

Depends what you mean by gameplay; You seem to mean "flexibility" here?

Yeah-yeah, excuse my bad English. It seems that we are understand the whole idea of this gameplay flexibility quite similarly.

 

[Zotis]

Putting two handed weapons on horses and carts will be great when we have them. In the meantime (and additionally for the sake of diversity), at least for me personally, having a two-handed sword on the back would be for the sake of carrying it on foot when other things are in my hands (or for the sake of having my hands free). I realise it's not historically accurate, but neither is a dungeon full of zombies. It's certainly a lot more sensible to me than having it dissappear into thin air or in my magic bag of holding.

 

[Don Kanaille]

It isn´t inaccurate, it is just not useful as means to quickly access your sword. Sure, you can put a zweihänder in a sheatthe with a sling for your back or shoulder, you just have to take it off first before being able to draw that sword unless you want it to clip through your avatar.

 

[Zotis]

I don't want it to be fast. I want it to be slow, and I want it as an alternative to it appearing in my hand from thin air.

 

[Don Kanaille]

I´d be fine with that. Just stating

 

[Mati9319]

While I don't see any need for sheathes in an exploration/fight based dungeon-crawler game like Exanima, it really should be implemented in Sui Generis.

Assuming that we'll be exploring various cities and/or villages, we should be able to have our weapon (and shield if equipped) sheathed while not in combat mode, as constantly walking with our blade in hand may not be considered nice by local guards.

Actually, I imagined sheathes as a separate clothing with at least three variations:

• sheath for one-handed weapon (worn on the left side of the body),
• sheath for two-handed weapon (worn on the back of the body),
• on-strap hitch for a shield (worn on the back of the body).

Of course, at given moment we would be able to wear only:

• sheath for one-handed weapon and/or on-strap hitch for a shield,
• sheath for two-handed weapon.

 

[Don Kanaille]

Wearing a shield on your back is easy enough and even historically correct. Just add an extra strap, ideally with its own belt buckle, and you can shoulder it comfortably. Said strap can even be a help in combat because ít can take some of the shield´s weight off of your arm. However only practical with arm-strap-shields; center-grip shields are usually held farther away from the body and a in-combat strap would hinder their mobility.

Smaller shields like bucklers can also be comfortably worn on your side, often simply hung from the sword grip like this.

 

[cosmo bozo]

I'm with Zotis on this, carrying a weapon in a historically inaccurate way is far preferable to carrying it in the even more historically inaccurate way of making it disappear into thin air.

I'd be quite happy with a much slower animation of taking it off your back, and re-sheathing it..... a trade off for having a bigger weapon....

 

[Bullethead]

I'm perfectly cool with the current, pretty much limitless inventory system. If you start putting limits on inventory, you increase grind because (assuming you don't get killed) you have to keep going back to the nearest town to dispose of your loot instead of doing a "dungeon" in 1 go and then moving on to a new town. BME says they don't want grinding and the experience system forces continued exploration, so I'd expect things to stay about how they are with inventory in general.

As for sheathing a weapon in town, you can always stick your equipped weapons on your inventory. Does it appear to be pulled out of thin air when you equip it? Sure. Is this a gamebreaker? No. After all, you have some inherent magic power so why not think of this as a manifestation of it? Cuts down on pickpocketing, you know .

Besides, physics. Have you ever tried fencing with a sheath doing its best to trip you? You pretty much have to keep your other hand on your hip to stabilize it, which cramps your style and prevents use of a main gauche, buckler, or a hand-parrying with your gauntlet. It's better to take your swordbelt off and toss it to the side, or use your sheath as a fending stick like a samurai, than fight with it on your waist.

 

[Mati9319]

As for sheathing a weapon in town, you can always stick your equipped weapons on your inventory. Does it appear to be pulled out of thin air when you equip it? Sure. Is this a gamebreaker? No. After all, you have some inherent magic power so why not think of this as a manifestation of it? Cuts down on pickpocketing, you know .

That makes sense actually. If we're already able to manipulate objects with the power of our mind (was it ever explained lore-wise?) then why not? Anyway, I still think that sheathes would add pretty much to esthetical feeling and if you'd be in need to quickly equip your weapon in town, you wouldn't have to do "open-inventory-drag-weapon-to-character" routine in split seconds.

I'm perfectly cool with the current, pretty much limitless inventory system. If you start putting limits on inventory, you increase grind because (assuming you don't get killed) you have to keep going back to the nearest town to dispose of your loot instead of doing a "dungeon" in 1 go and then moving on to a new town. BME says they don't want grinding and the experience system forces continued exploration, so I'd expect things to stay about how they are with inventory in general.

I can't help but completely agree on that. I only hope that we won't be losing all of our equipment in case of death, because such concept in a game like Sui Generis is completely wrong. Works fine with Exanima, but has to stay away from SG in my opinion...

 

[Bullethead]

I only hope that we won't be losing all of our equipment in case of death, because such concept in a game like Sui Generis is completely wrong. Works fine with Exanima, but has to stay away from SG in my opinion...

I dunno. I think there's a cool RPG element in waking up wet and naked at some random spot in the world, so long as you keep your experience. A master can whoop your ass with a blade of grass so if you've got any experience worth mentioning, you should be OK even when reduced to abject poverty. And to hedge your bets, you could establish caches of weapons, armor, and money as "life insurance". Provided you wake up near one, you'll soon be back in business. If not, then you're in unexplored territory so can get more experience for the new surroundings.

The RPG aspect would really come into play if your death was witnessed by NPCs (who presumably looted your corpse, hence loss of all that). So, your house and all that's in it gets sold off, your wife remarries, and former acquaintances will at first regard you as undead and treat you as such. Of course, if you get killed fairly often, folks will eventually learn to expect to see you again, and you'll gather a herd of both fanboys and witchhunters always after you .

 

[Don Kanaille]

I don´t know, but if your sheath hinders your fencing that much it´s probably not equipped correctly...? I have a hard time believing that such a historically timed-tested invention like the sword sheath would have such a huge drawback.

I'm perfectly cool with the current, pretty much limitless inventory system. If you start putting limits on inventory, you increase grind because (assuming you don't get killed) you have to keep going back to the nearest town to dispose of your loot instead of doing a "dungeon" in 1 go and then moving on to a new town. BME says they don't want grinding and the experience system forces continued exploration, so I'd expect things to stay about how they are with inventory in general.

I don´t think that this is going to be a problem because SG/Exanima are not the kind of RPGs where you just grab everything you find and throw it at a random merchant for infinite profit. Remember that every NPC is supposed to have a personality, his own goals and motivations. Why would anybody reasonably buy off all the junk you found in some cave?
SG is supposed to specifically defy a lot of those gaming tropes where looting trash and selling it to vendors is a legit way to wealth. Instead it is much more likely that some real world logic applies which makes looting everything pretty pointless to begin with, no matter if you could potentially fit everything in your inventory or not.




Oh, and as far as death in SG is concerned: The last bit of info I have in mind is that it comes down to how you die. You´ll respawn bare of equipment elsewhere (your character being able to come back from the dead is a mjaor plot point), but can potentially retrieve your old corpse if it hasn´t been looted in the meantime or fell down some unreachable hole etc. But even if it has been looted, you could potentially track the looters down and so on.

Or you just get knocked out and may awake some time later with a headache, but otherwise intact.

 

[Bullethead]

I don´t know, but if your sheath hinders your fencing that much it´s probably not equipped correctly...? I have a hard time believing that such a historically timed-tested invention like the sword sheath would have such a huge drawback..

The problem with sheaths is that they're intended to hold your sword in a convenient position so are balanced based on having the sword in them. When you pull the sword out, they become imbalanced. They also lose most of the mass they used to have so now they can flop around with much more enthusiasm and in directions they don't go when loaded.

This is why, as far as I can tell, swords were typically slung on a baldric over 1 shoulder instead of fastened to a belt. As long as the sword is in the sheath, its weight holds everything in place on your hip and everything is designed so it stays more or less in place even when you're running. Then, when you draw the sword, you can also quickly shuck the baldric, throw it in your enemy's face, or use it as an expedient shield.

 

[Chris.J0621]

Have it carried on the shoulder. Same as a polearm. Equip a different weapon, and you drop the twohander/polearm.

like Durer's illustration of Gallowglass mercenaries on foot - one with sword, one with a polearm:

Personally, having that, instead of the magnetic magic back scabbards would be refreshingly different to see.

Or, perhaps we could have a sling connecting to both ends of our scabbards, and this sling would be worn around our torso diagonally?

 

[MathieuG89]

I hope scabbards are implemented. They were very popular during middle age and I have never once heard they were intrusive or hindered the movement or combat ability of its wearer. On the contrary, they were made of thin wood and leather and were lightweight. They could be worn on the waist or over the shoulder. Scabbards were used to carry soldiers and knights daggers and swords, to protect them from damage and as a display of nobility. This game would feel pretty empty without them!

 

[Bullethead]

This game would feel pretty empty without them!

I dunno. Not many weapons had them. Daggers, definnitely. Sideswords (in its broadest sense, meaning basically anything bigger than a dagger but still meant primarily for 1-hand use), as the name implies, definitely. Longswords, maybe, maybe not. A blade 1m long from tip to crossguards would be hard for a person of average medieval (or even modern) stature to wear at the side unless on a horse, not to mention the 2-handed hilt above the belt poking into the armpit. And unless the person's arm was longer than the blade (which is highly doubtful), he couldn't draw it without grasping the blade with the left hand. Nothing fast there. I'm not even going to bother with the Hollywood back-mounted thing. Greatswords, the even bigger zweihanders, maces, flails, and axes and pole arms, definitely not. Most of those were battlefield weapons anyway, intended for use en masse, not as personal defense weapons.

And even for weapons that COULD have a sheath/scabbard, the sheath/scabbard would have to be paired with a specific weapon. Remember, this is all pre-industrial so everything is hand-made and no 2 things are identical even if forged by the same smith. The sheath/scabbard that fits Broadsword A almost certainly won't fit Broadsword B. So if you found Broadsword B by itself, naked in a bucket, then you have no sheath for it. Ever. Unless you go to some NPC vendor and pay to have one custom-made for it, and then it won't fit any other sword. Now, if you buy a small sword from a vendor, I would assume it would come with a sheath, but that sheath would only fit that particular sword.

This all means that scabbards and sheaths would have to be separate items of equipment just like armor, and would have to be paired with a specific weapon. And given that only a minority of weapons in the game (essentially only the smaller blades that are either bought at stores or, in some cases, looted scabbared/sheath and all from corspes) would likely come with matching sheaths/scabbards anyway, this sounds like implementing a lot of overhead for very little gameplay value. Therefore, I'm totally fine with not having scabbards/sheaths in the game.

 

[Anubis]

Could be as simple as including an option for weapons: Has a scabbard? Yes or no. If yes, then the sword is assumed to have been found with said scabbard, if no... Then the character can take said sword to craftsman and have one made, thus enabling the option for said sword.