Ain't no party like rpg party! (Follower mechanics)

[NT122]

Baldur's Gate. Icewind Dale. Dragon Age Origins. I wager most of us have played these games and enjoyed them to some extent. I think what the free roaming RPG genre is missing are NPC buddies! However, Sui Generis' control scheme wouldn't fit with the usual control scheme associated with party based RPGs. So how about this. You can have up to five NPCs in your party. Outfit them if you wish. They generally will follow you and do what they're good at, but if you need to them directions hover over them with your mouse and press the MIDDLE button and drag to where you want them to go. They'll oblige and contextually do what needs to be done.

How do you all feel about this idea? Is it in the realm of possibility?

 

[Vincent101]

I think it is, yes, but it's not really the direction that Sui Generis is going. One or two npcs that follow you around and act of their own agenda seems more like what would be happening in SG.

 

[Rob]

I think it is, yes, but it's not really the direction that Sui Generis is going. One or two npcs that follow you around and act of their own agenda seems more like what would be happening in SG.

Yes, that's my interpretation also.

In principle, other NPCs (human or otherwise) should be able to roam around, do what they want, even fight each other if they want. Such behaviours/interactions may or may not involve you (the player). The SG world doesn't have to be player-centric!!!

A follower doesn't have to be anything special. They can be just like all of the other NPCs in the SG world, the difference being that for some reason they want to follow you at that moment in time, whether due to money, loyalty, intimidation, etc... they could even be deceitful and 'follow' you in order to lure you into a trap...

 

[Verva]

I think the only NPC follower in this game that will do what you tell them to when you tell them to do it would be a well trained dog. I have a feeling any beings of higher cognition would feel a bit indignant toward you telling them what to do all the time. Especially if it's phrased "Go there. Do this thing. Wait here. Hold this item for me."

I mean, how would you feel if this person you've found yourself adventuring with decided he was better than you, and ordered you around like a dog? They might start biding their time, and as soon as you get your hands on whatever valuable piece you've had your sights on, maybe they'll decide they want it more.

I think any orders for NPC companions should be done through dialogue. Also, as soon as you ask them to do something they should consider to themselves what's in that action for them.

 

[Tony]

I've always hated having to control a full party of people in an RPG. It takes the "role-play" out of the game. As others have stated, I want NPCs to be individuals with their own goals, objectives, incentives, etc. Not a mindless slave for you to command about.

 

[Synalon]

The closest I can see us getting to commanding a party is being able to hire mercenaries to help us. I don't really want a party, but I do think it would be cool to have some burly guys on your payroll for a while.

 

[Rob]

I've always hated having to control a full party of people in an RPG.

I've always been happy with party-based RPGs. It's a bit like being the commander of a (small) army. I suppose there's a vague link to god games there somewhere...

However, I think that they're in a completely different genre to single-character games. For me, there's enough space in the PC world for both genres!!! I think it's more important that a game has a definite identity, and sticks to it.

 

[Tony]

I've always been happy with party-based RPGs. It's a bit like being the commander of a (small) army. I suppose there's a vague link to god games there somewhere...

However, I think that they're in a completely different genre to single-character games. For me, there's enough space in the PC world for both genres!!! I think it's more important that a game has a definite identity, and sticks to it.

I understand the appeal of such games and I've played quite a few (Baldur's Gate series, Neverwinter Nights, etc.). But I consider them to be more along the lines of tactical games as opposed to RPGs. They're more about using proper strategy and group tactics to overcome your opponents instead of focusing on role-playing a single character.

Since Sui Generis is supposedly going to be focusing more heavily on the role-playing aspects I'd hope that they stay true to this and not allow us to have mindless slaves to control (unless we're talking about something that is actually mindless, like an undead skeleton ). They should treat NPCs as real people with the ability to think on their own.

 

[NT122]

I understand where you are all coming from. A better example would be the heroes you can recruit in the game "Mount and Blade" You don't have direct control over them but they help you out and may leave if you don't like what you're doing.

 

[Algea]

I'm not a big fan of party-based RPGs either mostly because I suck at controlling even a single person. Imagine me trying to give orders to a whole bunch of them!

Though I loved interactions between party members in BG 2. And in ME series my comrades were quite independent (thank god). But considering my level I shouldn't have been Commander Shepard, I should have been Private Shepard.

 

[martino]

I mean, how would you feel if this person you've found yourself adventuring with decided he was better than you, and ordered you around like a dog?

Actually I disagree. I believe this is exactly how it should be at the start. Your supposedly a level useless nobody at the start of the game. Hire yourself out as a mercenary or find a knight and become his servant. You can learn the arts of war and have somebody to hid behind when the going get tough.

Makes more sense to me than how most games do it and your some how powerful enough to go it alone and take out half a dozen goblins on your own.

And image the satisfaction you get when you realize you can stand on you own.

Why not have it continue through out the game. Giving you the option to join and Adventure on their quest (sounds like you will be able to back-stab them just as easily as they will back-stab you). Or join a militia unit as a regular to take out some camp (you need to prove yourself before someone will give you command)

Martino

 

[Rob]

I agree with Martino. There are always going to be bosses and workers; leaders and sheep. The natural order of things places us on a hierarchy, whether social, financial, or otherwise. The opposite notion of everyone being equal sounds a bit like communism... and I didn't think that Sui Generis wanted to impose a communist regime. Still, even in a communist state, not everyone is treated equal.

 

[Algea]

Still, even in a communist state, not everyone is treated equal.

Most definitely. When there is power there will be abuse of this power. Because basically it's all about human nature no matter the regime.

This post is pointed and completely relevant.

 

[d0ct0rscarecr0w]

Considering we have not had our hands on the game it would be hard to say whether controlling multiple characters is even an option. Most of those games were click to attack so I guess the question from there is will Sui Generis be click to attack? Somehow I imagine there will be a bit more control, which would make multiple characters hard to pull off.
You kept saying NPC when refering to party members... I'm not sure if this is a mistake since NPC implies no player control. In the case of NPCs I'd bet that there will likely be some form of 'hired arms' that the play can pay that will fight along side the player but not control (aside from maybe telling them to wait or attack specific enemies). I can't even think of a western RPG that doesn't have this feature so it will likely be implimented.

 

[Rob]

Considering we have not had our hands on the game it would be hard to say whether controlling multiple characters is even an option.

No, you can't control multiple characters. Other characters are indeed NPCs. But you can talk to them... and try to convince them to do things, like follow you.

 

[d0ct0rscarecr0w]

No, you can't control multiple characters. But you can talk to them... and try to convince them to do things, like follow you.

What I meant was if the control scheme would allow for character swapping. Games like Icewind Dale for instances can be because of their set up. On the other hand Diablo II for instance multiple characters wouldn't work very well because of timing. Unless of course it is just a follower and not a character.
Multiple characters requires freezing time and considering Sui Generis is about realism, I don't see them adding it.

 

[Rob]

What I meant was if the control scheme would allow for character swapping.
[...]
Multiple characters requires freezing time and considering Sui Generis is about realism, I don't seem them adding it.

Yes, I think you're right that Sui Generis is all about realism. I'm pretty sure that BM are strongly against this sort of behaviour, and want you to stick to living life through your single character.

 

[SergeDavid]

I do like follows and the ability to give them some basic commands, but by commands I mean your character yelling "Hit that goblin over there that is trying to shoot my sheep!" And the other npcs will attack that goblin if they don't have any other ones as a higher priority like one trying to club them to death. Think of them more as requests to be honest.

You could probably also sit down with them before battle and talk about target priority and what you want them to do and if they deem you smart enough they will follow your advice, and if it looks back they might decide against it since or if they really like you they'll stick with you until the bitter end. Just picture it as you with some friendly npcs vs some unfriendly npcs and ignore the whole party idea all together.

Now remember though they are following you for a reason, so you could theoretically give them better armor and they could give you it back and all this fun stuff for equipping them. Don't be upset however if they decide to leave the "party" aka stop following you and take your stuff with them, you did give them it.

 

[NT122]

What if your character has to... For the lack of a better expression, use his words? The NPC may or may not follow your orders.