Combat Demo Beta Release

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Kieran, Jul 12, 2014.

  1. Kieran

    Kieran Developer

    Messages:
    65

    A POSSIBLE MISUNDERSTANDING

    Before we move on to the purpose of this update we'd like to clear up some misunderstandings that seem to have resulted from our last update. Some people seem to have understood that we were abandoning our physics intensive combat in favour of something more conventional and even that the combat isn't much fun. Nothing could be further from the truth!

    The physics based nature of the game has not changed, only improved. We'd become very used to the combat in its previous state but with the feedback we received from the alpha we started to think about things from a new perspective and this led to some big improvements. Nothing was sacrificed.

    We received an overwhelmingly positive response from the combat alpha. Almost everyone is really enthusiastic about the combat and many have spent countless hours enjoying it even though it's just a series of one on one fights. This is something not many combat systems can provide. It is however hugely skill based, tactical and difficult, don't expect to be an instant hero who easily dispatches their opponents! Many people were initially frustrated but then came to love it once they understood its subtleties. It requires a little patience and practice, this is not a game where spamming keys leads to victory, every mistake you make will be brutally punished. The AI is clever and will use every tool at their disposal to beat you, you need to be clever too!


    COMBAT FUNDAMENTALS

    This is a very unique and highly skill based combat system. Please clear your mind of what you've learned in other games and take the time to read this quick introductory guide. Also pay attention to the tips that appear at the top of the screen after you defeat each opponent.

    You might remember that we said "combat situations will be occasional yet meaningful", we meant it. Combat in SG will have to be taken seriously, you will face AIs that are subject to the same exact rules as you and don't particularly want to die. Characters aren't suicidal loot piñatas and XP powerups, they'll quickly teach you to respect them. Combat is supposed to be an intense experience, not a continuous and careless slaughter.

    Finally, don't forget that Sui Generis is an open world RPG, not a beat-em-up. There are many other aspects to the game and ways to approach things, even combat. The close quarters combat itself is also not complete, we will continue to add features and make improvements but we are currently focusing on other aspects of the game. This combat demo will give you a taste of SG's original combat system and give you something to play around with before the prelude release, you should not consider it indicative of the actual game experience.


    SPEED × HEAVY = WELLY

    In English mister scientist! Physics in Sui Generis doesn't mean accurate hitboxes, it means physical forces are driving everything. Moving and turning your character can have a huge effect on the force of your blows and each weapon behaves differently and requires different play. This concerns the weight and balance of weapons and even their shape. A sword will deal damage along its entire edge and its end can slice through your opponent but a hammer is not very effective if you hit someone with the haft, you need to hit with the head and put some force behind the blow. So, don't just press the attack button but move your whole body with the swing, augment and direct every blow.


    MY TURN, STAND STILL!

    Timing is everything. To land an attack and succesfully bypass your opponent's defences you need to time it well. Just pressing the attack button does not accomplish anything, you need land blows in the right place and at the right time to actually do damage. Your opponents are most vulnerable when they are themselves attacking or recovering from an attack. Even then you need to hit them where they are exposed and vulnerable. The same goes for you, a badly timed attack will leave you vulnerable and can lead to a very swift demise.


    PLEASE DON'T HIT ME

    Blocking and parrying in Sui Generis is an organic process, you can't just press a button for magical invunerability. As long as you are facing your attacker and not doing anything else you will try to defend against incoming blows, however you must position and turn your character in such a way as to intercept the blow. Careful positioning can make your defences impenetrable but even if you don't successfully block an attack you will take less damage when you are braced to defend against it, defending is always important. You can cancel an attack to defend at any time by letting go of the attack button, however it can take a moment for you character to fully prepare their guard.


    WEEEE... I CAN'T FLY!

    Trying to move constantly (left-right-left-right) is a good tactic in many games but in Sui Generis, like in real life, this will only make you look silly and throw you off balance. Step when and where it matters! You're not trying to dodge bullets.

    You can't lunge forward and change your mind mid lunge to then lunge back, your character's feet need to be on the ground and you need to lose that momentum. This doesn't mean you need to be aware of your character's feet, there's a rhythm to your movements that you can transform into an elegant and deadly dance. You can also learn and predict your opponent's movements and use it against them.


    PLEASE REMEMBER THE NDA


    Because we don't want people who don't know much about the game to get a completely wrong idea of what it is, the combat demo is under a Non Disclosure Agreement. This means you should keep it to yourself but you are free and indeed encouraged to use our insider forum to discuss it and share anything including videos. The NDA will be lifted with the release of the prelude which will be more representative of the game in it's entirety.


    HOW TO GET IT


    You should receive an email with instructions and log in details, you can however access your account page at any time on our website http://www.baremettle.com/sg/login/ . Use your backer email and if you don't have a password yet or lost it use the forgot password feature.

    WARNING TO SOUND BLASTER USERS

    Some older Sound Blaster drivers will blue screen your system when using OpenAL. This is in fact a problem common to many games. If you own a Sound Blaster sound card and have not upgraded your drivers in some time we recommend that you do so.

    Best,

    Bare Mettle
     
  2. Shalani

    Shalani Insider

    Messages:
    64
    Can't wait to try it!
     
  3. turtleman155

    turtleman155 Insider

    Messages:
    750
    awesome testing the sweet ducks :D
     
  4. nox

    nox Insider

    Messages:
    205
    Absolutely fantastic!
    I just finished the expert arena (the new area is sweet!), and I have to say it was soooooo much fun! :D
    I haven't played for a while, so it felt really challenging in the beginning, before you get your timings and moves right.
    The new armors and clothes all look amazing! Every time I defeated an opponent I had to take a moment to play dress-up with my character. :p

    The combat feels great. The game looks and runs great. LOVE IT!
     
    Fawz likes this.
  5. Carl

    Carl Insider

    Messages:
    7
    It's a combat "beta" right, so access to £20 contributor level?
     
  6. Fawz

    Fawz Insider

    Messages:
    666
    It is indeed a Beta build that was just released, which is available to Alpha and Beta level backers. Access your account page to get a download link.

    http://www.baremettle.com/sg/login/
     
  7. fungos

    fungos Member

    Messages:
    3
    I'm at work and gave it a quick try, really really anxious to get home and get better at this amazing combat :D.
    I should say thank you for your clarification and for the release of this combat beta.
    I had a totally wrong interpretation of the changes from the previous announcement and after my post some other users clarified my doubts.
    So, sorry for my errouneus interpretation and I can only say one more time thank you for being true on your view.

    Btw, amazing performance and usability! Very good job!
     
    Fawz likes this.
  8. lvk

    lvk Insider

    Messages:
    429
    I'm glad you've written on the combat not being Sui Generis' primary focus, and about what 'physics' really means in terms of the game. I feel there was a lot of confusion there.

    As always, great job! There's no game I'm looking forward to more.
     
    Fawz likes this.
  9. Walker

    Walker Insider

    Messages:
    2
    I downloaded the beta but have some issues getting it to run. How do I access the insider forum to post issues?
     
  10. Carl

    Carl Insider

    Messages:
    7
    Cool. I upgraded my backer level so I could have a go. Yes, it's certainly "challenging!"

    I'm trying to work out if it's click, hold and drag the mouse around to swing the weapons or to click, release and drag the mouse around? Is there a way to "thrust" a weapon?

    Had lots of fun getting beaten (mainly) although I have got as far as the fourth combatant :)

    It would have been nice to have a straw dummy to attack at first as I think people will need LOTS of practise and it's difficult when you keep getting killed!
     
  11. lvk

    lvk Insider

    Messages:
    429
    @Carl You hold the mouse, and swing along with your weapon. If you click left and quickly swipe right, you'll do a left-to-right swing. By going from all the way to the right to the left and twisting your body along with the weapon you'll put that much more force into your swing - an aspect of the physics-driven combat that matters in SG. By clicking and quickly releasing, you can feint and bait your opponents into opening up their defense. Thrusting isn't implemented yet, but will be eventually.

    Don't forget you can doubleclick+hold for overhead swings! You may know, but I'm not sure the game hints at them.
     
    Fawz likes this.
  12. Carl

    Carl Insider

    Messages:
    7
    Thanks @lvk that's useful. I did stumble (literally) on the doubleclick + hold for the overhead "chop" which has on occasion even hit its target ;) and it's quite satisfying trying to get just the right distance to hit with the axe head and not the haft.

    I've managed some massive blows with the big sword and even knocked a few people over which is fun but didn't have the skill to finish them off while they were getting up :(

    It's certainly more rewarding to play than the button-mashing combat mechanics of most other games.

    Well done Bare Mettle!
     
    crashingtingler likes this.
  13. InfamousPotato

    InfamousPotato Insider

    Messages:
    35
    Just finished downloading. I just wanted to say thanks to the bare mettle team. I know you've worked hard on this, and I'm sure it'll be more than worth the wait. Also, thanks for working through the troubles you had on Friday (I do hope you didn't have to work much during the weekend, you folks need your rest).
     
    scyonto and Fawz like this.
  14. crashingtingler

    crashingtingler Insider

    Messages:
    182
    I would just like to take a moment to thank bare mettle and co. for removing the "my sword is actually a goddamn lightsaber" lady. sui generis is shaping up to be an absolutely stunning piece of work.

    (maul+overhead strike+crouch during swing=hilarity!)
     
    Boothie likes this.
  15. Levon Veldspar

    Levon Veldspar Insider

    Messages:
    55
    Removed? They promoted her! She's the second opponent in the expert tier, with some snazzy gear and thigh-high boots. Frankly she deserves it after all the hearty beatings she's handed down to us and I wish her the best of luck and an honourable death.
     
    nox, Nubby, JOhn6D and 3 others like this.
  16. snagar

    snagar Member

    Messages:
    4
    Hi,

    I never participate in the Alpha nor the Beta, but from what I read it sounds an interesting combat concept, but I think it would have been a nice addition to add visual feedback regarding the combat moves:
    1. Visual hints if the move was registered (like slash ).
    2. Directional arrows to hint on concatenate moves or optional moves (this can be toggled).
    I wonder how hard it was for first time testings, and what was the average combat time (even though it is just a beta).

    Thanks
     
  17. fluffydino2000

    fluffydino2000 Insider

    Messages:
    615
    You will be happy to know that it is usually very clear if a hit is made, and only unclear if the enemy is wearing plate armour. You can also hear quite clearly if you've made a connection.

    As for your second point, I'm unsure as to what you are describing. Do you mean suggestions of what moves to make? Or clear visual feedback of which type of attack you have made?
     
    ZaratanCho likes this.
  18. turtleman155

    turtleman155 Insider

    Messages:
    750
    the average combat time if you are playing aggressively is not too long if you are playing defensively you can make it last as long as you want as to your questions i think not :D
     
  19. snagar

    snagar Member

    Messages:
    4
    Thanks for the explanation,
    fluffydino2000, My second thought was of continues moves that could be concatenated to the starting move (like in Witcher 1, but there you had to just click the LMB at the correct time). In SG I would like to see an arrow that hints on a next move I can do to smoothly continue my move.
    For example:
    Starting move: swipe from left to right (swing).
    Next move might be: Bring sword upwards for head attack (angular up arrow)
    Bring sword downward for leg attack (angular down arrow)

    You choose what to do or ignore these hints and do something else.
    This might sound a little arcade like, but it can help teach the moves for new comers.

    Just a thought.
     
  20. fluffydino2000

    fluffydino2000 Insider

    Messages:
    615
    Ah, I see. It does sound useful for learning the game. But I'd imagine that actually executing suggestions exactly how the game suggests would be very tricky. What may make more sense is releasing a couple videos of AI fighting with highest skill level. Then displaying the virtual inputs the AI use and their cursor. That way, new players can see technique without having to try and react to very precise instructions mid fight.
     

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