Dialogue

[TheMusician91]

Hello.

Since the forum seems to be clogging with spam over the past day, I thought I would post an actual topic.

So I know Bare Mettle has said they're working on including dialogue in Exanima. To be honest, actually being able to interact with NPC's, in a way other than fighting them, is what I'm most looking forward to. Because, right now, it's a very good physics-based combat game, but there's nothing else there. The story is good, but there's no sense of actually being part of the world. So I have some questions about this.

1. Is dialogue a priority at the moment, or is it something that will happen multiple updates from now?
2. Will it just be random comments at first, or will actual conversations be implemented immediately?
3. Will the dialogue be CRPG-esque, with the player having multiple responses to choose from?

I think it's a good topic for discussion, so please also let me know what you folks want the dialogue to be like.

Edit: Yay, the spam was removed!

 

[Syllabear3]

Will it be text or?? Recording voices and adjusting them to your character tone would be hard, or maybe not?
Anyways dialogue gets boring when you open a game like this to kill things, i dont think it will be priority since there are some stuff that requires more attention.

 

[TheMusician91]

Will it be text or?? Recording voices and adjusting them to your character tone would be hard, or maybe not?
Anyways dialogue gets boring when you open a game like this to kill things, i dont think it will be priority since there are some stuff that requires more attention.

That's the thing, though. This is supposed to be a prelude to Sui Generis, which is an RPG, and which they've said will have dialogue and NPC's. I believe Madoc said it would be text only, as well. And since they said they wanted to test everything for Sui Generis in Exanima, I imagine that at some point they'll put in dialogue. Plus, and this is just personal preference, I really need character interaction to really love a game. There just doesn't seem to be any depth if you're some random person dropped into the world, but seemingly apart from it. You're not a character at that point, you're just a thing that can kill other things. I'm really hoping for more than a combat simulator.

 

[ZaratanCho]

Exanima is not a combat simulator and never been intended to be one(it seems like it is now mostly because it is lacking many key features.. and because the combat is so good ;d). Currently there is only non verbal interaction but it exists and it is certainly not just about killing things necessarily. SG in particular is not supposed to be combat focused, combat is there as a natural part of the world ;d

They are aiming to do very ambitious things with AI and dialogues. Some of that should actually be coming in the next update which shouldn't be too far off now. We are barely out of the tutorial area of Exanima really.

 

[Mati9319]

I'm all for text-based dialogue system, simply because it gives so much more possibilities than a voiced dialogue. I mean, in game like "Sui Generis" I expect the dialogues to be (mostly) procedurally generated based on A LOT of factors (time of the day, surroundings, our appearance, NPC's mood and many more).

Dialogue system from Adventure Mode of "Dwarf Fortress" seems to be pretty close to my vision.

 

[TheMusician91]

Exanima is not a combat simulator and never been intended to be one(it seems like it is now mostly because it is lacking many key features.. and because the combat is so good ;d). Currently there is only non verbal interaction but it exists and it is certainly not just about killing things necessarily. SG in particular is not supposed to be combat focused, combat is there as a natural part of the world ;d

They are aiming to do very ambitious things with AI and dialogues. Some of that should actually be coming in the next update which shouldn't be too far off now. We are barely out of the tutorial area of Exanima really.

I know it lacks many features that will eventually be put in (thaumaturgy being the one people seem to want the most), but I would love it if some sort of dialogue was put in one of the next few updates. Like I said before, without interaction (which is only fighting, currently), there's just not a lot of depth to me. You said non-verbal interaction is already there, but really the only interaction besides fighting is escaping. I come back to this game every now and then, having bought it a month after it was released, but it just doesn't hold me in the same way it does for many others. Which is a shame, because the gameplay is absolutely excellent.

Anyway, I just wanted to bring up dialogue in the game because no one seemed to be talking about it, so I'm glad some people are replying. Would love to hear everyone's thoughts.

 

[Tony]

Dialogue is one of the things Madoc is currently working on and it should make an appearance in the next update . He's designing the dialogue mechanics to support gameplay in SG as well as Exanima so it's taking a bit longer than planned but in the long run it'll be worth it. The dialogue will be much more complex than simple, random comments and it'll take into account the NPC interaction/behavior mechanics as well (it'll have dynamic attributes and not just static responses which never change).

 

[ZaratanCho]

You said non-verbal interaction is already there, but really the only interaction besides fighting is escaping.

This is false ;d Even though the AI is still far from where it is going be eventually, fighting and escaping is not the only interaction. Escaping would imply starting a fight in the first place, this is something you can avoid by interacting with the NPCs non verbally. Eye contact, how you approach them, distance, openings etc. are considered by the NPCs based on their unique personalities influencing their actions. Based on these factors they will decide wether to fight, leave you alone, keep an eye on you etc. You can even get into a fight with someone and later have them calm down and become non hostile to you. Things can change based on your actions.

They also remember previous encounters so if you have already earned the trust of an undead they will not pay you much heed. You will be able to sprint and fight others around them without having them turn on you.

That stuff will of course expand in various ways with more updates. Like being able to give them certain items(you can already use items like the salves on NPCs of course)

On the other hand.. like i said, some dialogues should be coming in the next update. ;d

 

[TheMusician91]

Dialogue is one of the things Madoc is currently working on and it should make an appearance in the next update . He's designing the dialogue mechanics to support gameplay in SG as well as Exanima so it's taking a bit longer than planned but in the long run it'll be worth it. The dialogue will be much more complex than simple, random comments and it'll take into account the NPC interaction/behavior mechanics as well (it'll have dynamic attributes and not just static responses which never change).

Well, that's certainly a pleasant surprise! I figured the next update would be more than some bug fixes, but I never would have guessed they would be adding dialogue so soon. Thank you for the information.

 

[TheMusician91]

This is false ;d Even though the AI is still far from where it is going be eventually, fighting and escaping is not the only interaction. Escaping would imply starting a fight in the first place, this is something you can avoid by interacting with the NPCs non verbally. Eye contact, how you approach them, distance, openings etc. are considered by the NPCs based on their unique personalities influencing their actions. Based on these factors they will decide wether to fight, leave you alone, keep an eye on you etc. You can even get into a fight with someone and later have them calm down and become non hostile to you. Things can change based on your actions.

They also remember previous encounters so if you have already earned the trust of an undead they will not pay you much heed. You will be able to sprint and fight others around them without having them turn on you.

That stuff will of course expand in various ways with more updates. Like being able to give them certain items(you can already use items like the salves on NPCs of course)

On the other hand.. like i said, some dialogues should be coming in the next update. ;d

Honestly, based on my experiences, I don't think it's as deep as you think it is. I've literally sprinted into some of them, and they still ignored me, while others attack me on sight. I'm sure there's some kind of system in place dictating how they react, but I don't think it's that detailed. Obviously, with all the other complex stuff happening under the surface, I could have it completely wrong, though.

 

[Tony]

Honestly, based on my experiences, I don't think it's as deep as you think it is. I've literally sprinted into some of them, and they still ignored me, while others attack me on sight. I'm sure there's some kind of system in place dictating how they react, but I don't think it's that detailed. Obviously, with all the other complex stuff happening under the surface, I could have it completely wrong, though.

Zaratan is correct with what he mentioned above. The NPC interactions are already quite complex (the mechanics are designed to support SG as well as Exanima) it's just many people don't pay attention and instead assume things are randomly happening (which is incorrect). NPCs have their own personalities, likes/dislikes, emotions, they pay attention to their surroundings and constantly make decisions based upon what they witness and they do remember previous encounters. Some of this is even mentioned in the recently added in-game manual.

 

[Syllabear3]

That's the thing, though. This is supposed to be a prelude to Sui Generis, which is an RPG, and which they've said will have dialogue and NPC's. I believe Madoc said it would be text only, as well. And since they said they wanted to test everything for Sui Generis in Exanima, I imagine that at some point they'll put in dialogue. Plus, and this is just personal preference, I really need character interaction to really love a game. There just doesn't seem to be any depth if you're some random person dropped into the world, but seemingly apart from it. You're not a character at that point, you're just a thing that can kill other things. I'm really hoping for more than a combat simulator.

Yeah of course. I even would like to have a skilled companion to share some interesting "chat", even when it sounds silly, like in "Pillars of Eternity" where they share their story and you know them more doing their sidequests.
That was pretty comfy and i never experienced something like it.

 

[TheMusician91]

Zaratan is correct with what he mentioned above. The NPC interactions are already quite complex (the mechanics are designed to support SG as well as Exanima) it's just many people don't pay attention and instead assume things are randomly happening (which is incorrect). NPCs have their own personalities, likes/dislikes, emotions, they pay attention to their surroundings and constantly make decisions based upon what they witness and they do remember previous encounters. Some of this is even mentioned in the recently added in-game manual.

I do pay attention. I mentioned above that I tested them to see if there were specific actions that would make them attack, chill, run, etc.. There likely are factors determining their actions, but I'll be damned if I can find any rhyme or reason to it. Which I suppose makes sense if you want them to be like people. Folks can be confusing, sometimes.

 

[TheMusician91]

Yeah of course. I even would like to have a skilled companion to share some interesting "chat", even when it sounds silly, like in "Pillars of Eternity" where they share their story and you know them more doing their sidequests.
That was pretty comfy and i never experienced something like it.

That's actually really funny, because Pillars of Eternity is the main game I've been playing the last few weeks, and is somewhat why I thought of this topic. I really like Exanima's gameplay better, but PoE's dialogue and story are what keep me going back to it. Good characters really make a story, and I really want that in Exanima and Sui Generis. Obviously, that will be a bigger part of SG than Exanima, but I'd love to see the beginnings of it in this game. So the update with dialogue would be a highlight of my gaming experience this year.

 

[CharliePow]

I'm really excited to see what they do with dialogue - I'd like to see it entirely text-based presuming that dialogue will be generated with many many input factors.

Maybe a short "Hello" or greeting for each character so that we get an idea for their tone/demeanor when they're interacted with, with text following that?

 

[TheMusician91]

I'm really excited to see what they do with dialogue - I'd like to see it entirely text-based presuming that dialogue will be generated with many many input factors.

Maybe a short "Hello" or greeting for each character so that we get an idea for their tone/demeanor when they're interacted with, with text following that?

If memory serves, Madoc said they're likely to do exactly what you described. It's simply not feasible for the dialogue to be fully voiced, but I think they do want to implement generic greetings.