Found a way to enable follow camera in combat

[Tempered]

Those who wish to try a follow camera, that is have the camera stay behind your avatar during combat, can try it out and see how they like it.

You will have to have hidden and system folders visible in your windows install. Browse to the following file path:

c:/users/username/appdata/roaming/exanima

open the file exanima.ini with a text editor. Change the line camfollow = 0 to camfollow = 1

It is not perfect. There camera lags behind the player avatar's turns, but it is useable. It only works in combat mode, so you'll have to turn the camera yourself when exploring. The space bar still works to recenter the camera as well.

Disclaimer: Bare Mettle may or may not condone messing with the ini file. Do not attempt to alter files in your system if you are on heavy medications, alcohol or can't read for what ever reason. I am not responsible for any damages, illnesses or aggrevations you may experience.

Note that this may not work if you only have the combat demo. You may need beta access.

 

[lvk]

I believe this was once a selectable option in the menu in early combat alpha builds due to popular request, but Bare Mettle weren't a huge fan of the feature.

 

[Hemectu]

I tried this out a day or so ago, I remembered it from an earlier version and the config is still there, only disabled in the game menu.

It's awful.

I was spinning in circles after a strong strike as the camera lagged behind my mouse cursor.
If the camera panned at the same time I was trying a very strong strike the position would flip and I'd end up facing backwards and swinging who knows where.

Somewhat hilarious.

Good choice disabling it.

 

[Tony]

I've described (and even shown video) why a self-adjusting camera is a very bad thing in this game. The control scheme was designed around precise cursor movements. Every time the camera auto-adjusts it messes up your cursor movements and makes the game nearly unplayable. This is why the option was removed; it broke the game.

It is much better for people to learn how to actually play the game properly from the get-go than to try and avoid learning how to play and handicapping themselves in the process. It took me a few weeks to adjust to the controls being relative to the character instead of the camera but now it's completely natural. This control scheme is superior to being locked to the camera otherwise you'd have to stop pressing one movement key and press another every time the camera rotated 180 degrees. This would cause you to move in the wrong direction and would not be a precise way to control your character. What helped me learn the controls was thinking of it as "clockwise" and "counterclockwise" movement instead of "left" or "right" movement.

 

[Tempered]

There is no "properly" to playing a game. If it works for someone, then it is useful. I find it just as useable as the "proper" way to play. If the camera didn't lag behind so much, I would use it all the time as I have no problem reorienting the mouse cursor, but do find it awkward to have my movement keys effectively reversed constantly.

Hell, I was able to complete the expert arena for the very first time by using this setting. Next you are all going to tell me that the only "proper way" to play the game is to double tap for a dash instead of holding the key.

 

[Faelivrin]

There is no "properly" to playing a game. If it works for someone, then it is useful. I find it just as useable as the "proper" way to play.

I disagree. To me, the proper way to play a game is they way the developer meant it to be played. Of course you can like it or not and you can play like it is meant to be played or not. And in the future you might understand why it was meant to be played like that.. or not. But whatever the case it is the dev who set the rules and the limits that will fund the piece of software that any game is. This is why the developer have a more global vision of what the final game will be, and the reason because he is on better position to tell the players what is the proper, optimal, better, more efficient way to avoid the most common problems the average player will have.

Doing it properly doesn't mean the only way to do it, or the funnier way to do it, or the easiest way to do it, or the better way for you to do it. Doing it properly means doing it like it was mean to do by design. A design that probably took into account a lot of details that we don't have knowledge about, and unknown variables that might be present into the game right now, or in the future.

On the case of this feature you just have to do a little of search on this forum to find that a lot of us had the very same problem you are facing right now. The camera feel unnatural and very hard a first, but then at some point it start making sense. I would strongly recommend you give it another try without preconceptions, doing a honest effort to learn it.

 

[Tony]

There is no "properly" to playing a game. If it works for someone, then it is useful. I find it just as useable as the "proper" way to play. If the camera didn't lag behind so much, I would use it all the time as I have no problem reorienting the mouse cursor, but do find it awkward to have my movement keys effectively reversed constantly.

The devs designed the control scheme to function a specific way. Using it how they intended is the "proper" way, which the devs have stressed numerous times. People are free to do things however they like but they shouldn't be surprised if doing things differently is problematic.

 

[Tempered]

The only proper way to play a game is to have fun. That may or may not agree with the developers vision of game play, and will be different for different individuals. Hence, no single proper way to play a game.

Many people out there enjoy playing games with cheats and hacks. Definately not intended by the developer, but that is the proper way for those people to play as far as they are concerned. So how can any single way of playing be the proper way? I'm sure that each individual dev has their version of the proper way to play, as well.

 

[Tony]

The only proper way to play a game is to have fun. That may or may not agree with the developers vision of game play, and will be different for different individuals. Hence, no single proper way to play a game.

Many people out there enjoy playing games with cheats and hacks. Definately not intended by the developer, but that is the proper way for those people to play as far as they are concerned. So how can any single way of playing be the proper way? I'm sure that each individual dev has their version of the proper way to play, as well.

Are we changing the topic now? I thought we were discussing camera and movement controls but if you'd like to discuss how and why people play games then I suppose we can do that instead.

Concerning camera and movement controls there is a proper way to do so in Exanima/SG which is what the devs designed the game mechanics to work with. Again, people can choose to try other methods but they shouldn't complain if these other methods don't work well since the game wasn't designed to accommodate these methods.

As far as gameplay goes the devs encourage people to try new things and find creative solutions.

 

[Elaxter]

A camera that stays behind you would be a terrible idea. Learn how to fight at all angles instead of being reliant on a single viewpoint.

 

[ErlKing]

Camera behind character is bad, no arguing, BUT why there is no "Lock camera on enemy" mode? This game closest thing to dark souls / blade of darkness / revenant and I cant imagine playing these without lock-on mode.

Move control is relative to character, character position depends on mouse cursor and you have to move mouse cursor in combat a lot so whole camera-character positioning-mouse cursor thing is really hard to master, it is possible, but it would be much easier with camera locked on enemy.

I keep turning camera in combat to orient camera toward enemy because I got used to how character react on cursor movement, but when camera turn relatively to enemy position my movements are bit off. It is possible to get used to it, but why not to make controls easier?

 

[Hemectu]

Actually lock on mode would be horrible.

Fine for a single combatant, but if your suddenly fighting 3 enemies you'll have major issues trying to juggle between them.
Your mouse pointer is far better than any auto lock on as you can track anything and anyone with your mouse easily.
Wherever your mouse is your character faces. This let's you strike an opponent to your left then instantly parry a blow to your right .

No idea how the physics would manage auto lock either since you attack based on mouse orientation and movement, which also influences other parts of the character body. In this case this isn't anything like any other dungeon crawler that uses mouse 1 to attack. Here you can directly influence the direction and force behind an attack.

 

[ErlKing]

First, camera and and character orientation is different things, I want camera to be fixated on enemy, but character orientation still based on mouse cursor placement.
Second - lock on always implemented as optional feature, activated/deactivated on hotkey.

If your camera is locked on enemy its easier (or at least more accustomed) to orient movements because you usually facing opponent. Thing with controls reversed because of character facing camera is confusing and that is thing I dont like most.

I keep pressing space (when not swinging) to keep camera oriented toward enemy, but with so much sidesteps and circulating around it is frustrating.

 

[TwoPumpWarrior]

But this takes the camera completely out of your control, does it not? With the camera oriented on the enemy, I first assume that the player is no longer at the center of the screen. Secondly, every movement the enemy makes will shift the camera which is the exact problem with camera follow. Any large camera shift during combat can have dramatic impacts on your effectiveness. You may be able to swing your camera around with the enemy center but I feel like this is just going to cause headaches and lose the player or mouse cursor.

 

[ErlKing]

How is that player is no longer at center of screen? I guess if it will be some smoothened tracking it would not cause seasick or anything like that.

If camera follow opponent its easier to measure extra turn/swing and move around, Iam talking just about my personal preference. When I try to fight without moving camera it become much harder, maybe its just me.

I keep tweaking camera by space, kinda used to it now. Finished arena few times, really interesting, though I cant grasp how to utilize shield properly (twohader is easy).

 

[TwoPumpWarrior]

By centering the camera behind you constantly, you are actually reinforcing a view that is slanted, therefore misrepresenting the distance between you and your opponent. An angled camera from the left has always benefited me so that I can gauge distance and properly see an opponents open side.

 

[fluffydino2000]

What if you could have a setting that was a toggle called "Static Combat Camera". What it would do, is allow the camera to be centered on wherever the cursor was when middle click was pressed. Holding middle click would allow rotation about this point and also vertical panning. Releasing it would then allow combat to continue, except the camera is locked. You could then double click middle mouse to have the camera snap to the character instead of the cursor. Then the same controls would apply with the holding of middle mouse (except you'd hold the second click, like you do for over head swings).

Spoiler

Double clicking without holding should toggle the setting as well actually; as I don't envisage a situation where you'd want to place the camera on your character but not angle it, and I definitely do envisage a situation where you want to run the fuck away and take the camera with you. You know what, these finer details are beside the point, you could equally just have the camera lock on to you and follow you as normal when you run with RMB, and all these control systems could be configurable etc.

This would allow you to quickly set up a camera which captures the area you expect to fight in allowing you to focus on controlling just your character. It may even allow for easier combat manoeuvres to be executed. I feel its definitely worth experimenting with as I imagine the implementation time for a feature like this, for the devs to alpha test, would be less than an hour.

 

[ErlKing]

I have much more problem with measuring distance and moving when positioning of character and enemy relatively to camera constantly changing, especially moments when enemy in front of camera. I guess my problem is interpreting left-right forward-backward relatively to character instead of camera, with camera towards enemy it is easier.

Now that you pointed out that you prefer "angled camera from the left" like at start of arena fight, it made me wonder how it would feel with that perspective fixed on lock-on mode.

I don't get idea with static camera at all, camera should be always focused on character, otherwise it ll be very confusing and counterintuitive.


One more question - devs considered/tried control scheme with character movement relative to camera instead of character? I know, idea screams "Casual", but Iam still curious.

 

[Madoc]

There is one fundamental problem with any kind of dynamic camera that seems to be consistently overlooked. I keep trying to explain it but I guess I'm not doing it very well. The cursor operates in a 3D space defined by camera, when you move the camera so does this 3D space and hence the cursor. Obviously this means you lose control over the cursor and this is why all camera controls in the game lock the cursor to the camera before moving it. You cannot have a cursor with a moving camera, it's either one or the other. It doesn't matter what the camera is tracking, if the camera moves so does the cursor and you cannot control it anymore. If you're going to use the cursor in some kind of 3D space then that 3D space needs to be fixed. This is a completely unavoidable fact.

Games always operate in just one of two ways:

1) The camera is fixed and you have a cursor

2) The camera, the character and movement are all locked together. No cursor

You're looking for an option 3 but there just isn't one. This game falls into the 1 bracket and basically what you're asking is for 2 which it is not and cannot be for countless reasons.

Movement relative to the camera is something that has been brought up a few times and we've never taken it into consideration. The combat requires a lot of precision in order to make the specific arc that your weapon is following connect well with the opponent, this is not something you can do if you are limited to moving only in certain directions. The precise control over what direction you move in is what allows you to make adjustments to your position that will make blows connect properly. You might not be aware that you are doing this but you are. This also turns into having a repertoire of moves that you know work with various weapons, without a consistent control over your movement direction you would not be able to replicate these moves, you'd be at the mercy of the current camera angle and unable to execute any manoeuvre you've learned reliably.

In case some of this this doesn't make sense let me point out that when you move in a straight line towards your opponent the game automatically adjusts your movement distance so that your blows connect properly. I am talking about a slightly more advanced level of play.

I recently taught someone with little gaming experience how to play. She tried the game and found the controls very confusing and considered the game impossible. I then told her to try just keeping the cursor on her opponent, W is advance and S is retreat, use just those and focus on timing your attacks. Her very next fight she got to the 5th opponent and within an hour she was at the "boss". Focusing on just moving towards and away from your opponent can be a very good way to become accustomed to and understand the control system.

 

[ErlKing]

Thanks for reply, I haven't thought about 3D cursor/camera problem. I am slowly getting used to controls, yeah, its somewhat unique, remind me one ancient game - Landerer, flier with most insane controls I have ever seen. Game where you start hardly getting from A to B in open space and finish charging full speed through narrow labyrinth.