Kickstarter update #4: Sui Generic?

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Kieran, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. Kieran

    Kieran Developer

    Here's a quick update in response to some of the opinions that seem to have formed regarding our game. We are simply expressing some of our thoughts here.

    Yes, you start the game as an anonymous villager. The whole point here is that you create your own character and write your own story. If you want to play a named hero with a rich background, predefined personality and a clear mission ahead, then you're looking at the wrong game. Personally, we feel completely alienated from such characters.

    Yes, your character does turn out to be special. If you weren't special you wouldn't stand a chance. And here comes a spoiler. Rather than providing you with this astounding power to record moments in time and return to them whenever you please (read save/load) so that you may win every battle, eventually, even by pure chance; we thought it better for it to be an element of the story. We don't just brush over this as an every day "respawn" or other mechanic. Also, to quote our project page, "not as vague mythology but actual chains of events leading to the current situation".

    Yes, our world is under duress, you won't be picking daisies. As for a looming threat, you may have no idea what it is until it's too late. Nothing is as it seems. There is no evil in our world. There may be lack of scruples, ruthlessness or just genuine oversight, but motives are often complex and valid to those who hold them.

    What you should be paying attention to when reading our brief summary of the premise are the "ifs" and "buts". We dislike linear story, we hate linear story, no, we truly despise linear story. If you asked us what is as pleasant as being poked in the eye, we'd have to answer "linear story".

    We have not given you a story. We have intentionally lured you into thinking of this as a fairly typical fantasy RPG. Guess what? We don't like those either. We are of a skeptical nature and when faced with the usual fantasy claptrap, much like an inquisitive child, our answer is simply "but why?". There is lots of because in our world. We have taken what appears to be generic fantasy and given it a whole new twist. A lot of effort has gone into this and to reveal it would be to throw it all away. We hold it more dear than the funds we are trying to raise. If by not revealing it we fail in securing your support, then so be it.

    We have been asked about character interactions and such. Well, sometimes we want to chat and sometimes we just want to kill stuff. Must be those hormones. Thing is, when the latter mood takes us, and some whining NPC decides to illustrate their sensitive nature to us, the solution is clear: smack 'em in the gob, throw 'em in the river, then perhaps evaluate whether their home looks to be a suitable place to store our booty. If this errant behaviour should upset someone, well, let them come. That, to us, is role playing. What we tend to be presented with in "games with choices" is something like this:

    1) Help the distressed peasant now
    2) Help the distressed peasant later
    3) Help the distressed peasant reluctantly

    That is not role playing. We don't know what it is, but we don't like it.

    You may encounter characters with sunny dispositions that are not always genuine and heartfelt. You may find yourself trying to divine your interlocutor's true intent, hopefully you are well versed in the arts of subtlety and sarcasm. You may also encounter characters with good or even noble intentions, and yet these intentions may not be in your best interests. Our game will certainly feature moral dilemmas and ambiguities.

    Undoubtedly much of what we say sounds familiar and doesn't strike you as original, but perhaps it has at least conveyed something of our ethos. Take home what you will.

    Big thanks to everyone who is supporting us.

    Much love,

    The Bare Mettle team
    Parco, Tony and trsp62 like this.
  2. Paul Feeney

    Paul Feeney Insider

    For ever vocal person who is saying it is 'generic' I guarantee there are 50 people listening to you. I am sure a lot of who are backing you respect your choices to actually make it a surprise, unlike so many other games now a-days. Best of luck writing all those moments, as well as making them happen!
  3. Valvar

    Valvar Member

    Brings to mind what the Witcher games did. Something that they said in a dev blog that comes to mind, and I paraphrase, is that a player should not make a choice because of the imagined consequences but because of the choice itself. So when you chose to give the elves their supplies, you do it not because you want the elves to be your friends later and help you defeat the evil empire, but because you want to feed the hungry elf children. The consequences should often by unexpected and sometimes come back and bite you later in the game.
    The Urban Spaceman and Tony like this.
  4. Tony

    Tony Moderator

    Funny you mention CDPR's games since The Witcher series were the first things to pop into my head when I read their goals on the Kickstarter page (and the dev's forum posts). They say they want meaningful consequences, moral ambiguity and to put a "twist" on the generic fantasy setting. Sounds almost like exactly what they attempted to do in The Witcher games (this similarity is definitely a pro and not a con!).
  5. cluas

    cluas Member

    This sounds very exciting ...

    And the graphics are impressive.

    Can i join the beta ? :p
  6. Tony Dye

    Tony Dye Insider

    Yes - have a look at the paypal donation options!
  7. AdamS

    AdamS Insider

    What first came to mind when I saw this game was 'Nethack'.
    It shares many elements with Sui Generis, such as:
    - Starting off as a no-name
    - A story is present, but only as a framework, not as a driving force
    - Lots of freedom to screw around with NPC's and environment
    - Solid, realistic game mechanics

    Biggest difference is that Nethack is turn based and rendered in ASCII characters.

    Did you guys (developers) play Nethack, and if so, draw inspiration from it?
  8. SergeDavid

    SergeDavid Insider

    After seeing the first video on kickstarter I knew you guys and gals of Bare Mettle would make me happy with anything you do to this game. This post just confirms my trust in you all and why I've decided to back this project, I only wonder if I could increase my backing through paypal from the kickstarter amount to get that next tier and support you all even more.
  9. TheScythian

    TheScythian Insider

    You're in luck Serge, Tony's just explained how to do this in another thread
    Tony likes this.
  10. Verva

    Verva Member

    The only fear I have with this game is that I'll be paying such close attention to the development that when I finally get to play the full, finished product, I'll know so much about it that there won't be any surprises. I don't want to ignore everything until it's out though :( What a dilemma.
  11. sean archer

    sean archer Insider

    Will there be consequences for thumping that NPC and/or throwing them in the river?

    1 - AI which actually reacts to these events e.g. another NPC within visual/hearing range notices these things and either runs of to get help or tries to help while their neighbor is being assaulted...
    2 - Will the crime be noticed by the local militia(if its noticed) in a large enough town/city?
    3 - In a small village will the villages notice that their neighbor is even missing and some stranger is suddenly living
    in his house?

    I'm sort of over idiot NPC's who are only several yards away without reacting at all...
    Oona likes this.
  12. triviadave

    triviadave Insider

    My first thought on reading this was that it sounded like The Belgariad by David Eddings, a small unremarkable boy who everyone else seemed to know had amazing unrealised potential. This reminded me of the joy I got when I started reading the books when I was about 14. Thinking further though, it is more than that. With the Belgariad, there is a path laid out, almost from the start that you will follow throughout the books. If Sui works the way it sounds, it will have the freedom of choice that you had in the early Elder Scrolls games, coupled with an even less defined "main" storyline (if you want to play that way). If the game allows you to follow your own path, and give you the choices to become the character you want, that sounds fantastic. If you can fight your own small battles too, those choices getting in the way of you becoming mayor of a town, rather than fighting to save the world, while it all happens around you (i.e. a story that progresses whether you are part of it or not, but possibly faster if you help, and that you can jump in and out of as you wish), that would be incredible.

    Going back to my original idea of books that I am reminded of, it sounds more like Joe Abercrombie. The books have some great events happening, sometimes you are involved, sometimes you just hear about them, but you spend the book learning about one or two people, seeing them develop and how they overcome their own difficulties.

    It's quite possible I am confused about how the game will work, but I hope not.

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