Las time, on Sui Generis...

[pareod]

Okay, last time I posted asking about the status of the game almost everyone said it was dead because of a lack of news and work. Things look much more active now, but how is development going? Is it turtle pace, or is it picking up?

 

[tiny lampe]

Okay, last time I posted asking about the status of the game almost everyone said it was dead because of a lack of news and work. Things look much more active now, but how is development going? Is it turtle pace, or is it picking up?

The game has never been dead and progress has always been made. The problem is that this is only apparent to people who have access to the insider forums.

Sui Generis' prelude, ExAnima, received a very large update last Tuesday. That will be the last alpha update ExAnima receives. Very soon the game will be available to beta backers and, after that, it will be released on Steam as an early access game. I expect the beta to come out before February ends and the Steam release to take place at some point in March.

 

[pareod]

The game has never been dead and progress has always been made. The problem is that this is only apparent to people who have access to the insider forums.

Sui Generis' prelude, ExAnima, received a very large update last Tuesday. That will be the last alpha update ExAnima receives. Very soon the game will be available to beta backers and, after that, it will be released on Steam as an early access game. I expect the beta to come out before February ends and the Steam release to take place at some point in March.

How much content is available, and how much is actually planned? Besides the cool looking combat, I could not figure out if this was supposed to be a 60 hour RPG or what.

 

[Murf]

How much content is available, and how much is actually planned? Besides the cool looking combat, I could not figure out if this was supposed to be a 60 hour RPG or what.

Can't really compare SG to other RPG's. It's not an x- hour RPG per se The game progresses as you make choices and changes based on those choices, there will be no set goals or achievements. or quests as such. Not as what we are used to anyways. There is no dying and reloading and trying again. You die, you start over. Pretty much take what ya know about RPG's and such and forget it.

it's gonna be awesome

 

[tiny lampe]

Can't really compare SG to other RPG's. It's not an x- hour RPG per se The game progresses as you make choices and changes based on those choices, there will be no set goals or achievements. or quests as such. Not as what we are used to anyways. There is no dying and reloading and trying again. You die, you start over. Pretty much take what ya know about RPG's and such and forget it.

it's gonna be awesome

Wait. Let's try to be precise here or our posts will be misinterpreted.

In ExAnima (Sui Generis' prelude) if you die you have to start over. The game is quite long so saving is possible. However, even if you save your progress, you will still have to start from the very beginning ig you die. Hence, saving is only useful for players who are still alive in the game and wish to stop playing for a while and continue their session at a later date.

In Sui Generis, if you die you don't start over. Instead, you get reincarnated somewhere else. You can then track back your previous body if you wish and you may recover your gear unless somebody found it first.

DeathDesign's other point are spot on. Sui Generis is not about completing fetch quests or killing and looting like a maniac. Rather, it's about getting immersed in a sandbox game where everybody have their goals and you have the option to intervene. Others may accept your help or may steer clear from you. You are not the center of the world by any means.

 

[Murf]

In Sui Generis, if you die you don't start over. Instead, you get reincarnated somewhere else. You can then track back your previous body if you wish and you may recover your gear unless somebody found it first.

Oh, so in SG there won't be any way to start completely over from scratch?

 

[pareod]

So how much time can be invested it the current content? Is the game story-based or completely sandbox? For example, in Mount and Blade you are given the freedom to help whoever you want and do whatever you want, but you will spend a long time gathering forces and forging alliances. What kind of game is Sui Generis shaping up to be, and what game could it be compared to content wise? Dragon Age Inquisition would be an example of a content rich game.

 

[Vold]

@pareod I could try to explain it but my words would not be enough, read this post by BM so that you can grasp what they are trying to do with SG. Link to Development Update #2 (THE BIG PICTURE).

 

[Scarecrow]

@pareod I advice you to read through the "About" page as it may answere quite a few of your questions.

The current content (Which is for ExAnima, the prelude. Not Sui Generis, the main game) lasts for a few hours when you think about completion time for an experienced player. I think i've completed the arena + the current dungeon in 2-3 hours perhaps. However, i've completed it before, and im pretty good at the combat if I say so myself. For a new player however, it will last much longer. Its pretty difficult, and you start over when you die. Keep in mind its still just in alpha, and more content will be added.

ExAnima will be a dungeon crawler, with plans to add randomisation, maybe player created dungeons, and more. With this the content will probably last for quite a long time, but it will not be a free roam experience with different quests and choices to be made.

Sui Generis on the other hand will be a free roam sandbox, where you exist in a very living world, with events happening in realtime even if you are not there. You are not the center of the world, and you are not a special someone. You merely live in the world as an adventurer. Your role in this world is up to you to define. What makes you special from everyone else is the fact that you can come back to life when you die (the respawn system).

Read a couple of dev updates, some of the videoes, and on the about page, and you'll get a better grasp on what the game is all about.

 

[ZaratanCho]

DA:I is content rich but that content is of very poor quality.

At the moment we have the prelude alpha as a playable build which is and will be different from Sui Generis.
The time you can invest will vary a lot depending on how well you do. If you die a lot it can take a while to explore and find everything. Even if you don't die at all it will still take a decent amount of time if you haven't played it and take your time.

Yeah it can be done pretty fast if you know where to go and what to do and run around all the time. ;d

I probably have hundreds of hours in the arena mode as well.

 

[pareod]

DA:I is content rich but that content is of very poor quality.

I definitely meant Origins lol. Not a big fan of Inquistion, but Origins is great I think.

Anyways I read update #2 and, as a lover and critic of games, the ideas look promising and unique, but not so extraordinarily revolutionary that "words would not be enough" to describe it. The question now becomes how much autonomous content can the devs create before the world simply stops moving? Perhaps certain major story arcs would need to be triggered so that the player doesn't miss out on everything. I'm sure there will be the herald in every town letting the player know what is happening where. There are bound to be countless quest-breaking bugs in the case that the player does something the game does not expect, but even that could be handled intelligently and crafted into the story. The other question is how much power will the player have? Say I kill a king, can I usurp the title and rule? Will there then be alliances, taxes, and army systems to use? The game looks great, but it needs a little clarity for those of us who don't want to buy something that could very easily turn into "You have so much freedom that you should script events yourself!" I'm sure this wouldn't happen, but at least with a game like Divinity: Original Sin I knew that I would be getting a lot of playtime with a game that had character and mechanic advancement as I played.

One last question: in terms of scale and content, are we talking Diablo I which offered a good bit of content and progression, or Diablo II which offered a much more immense and expansive amount of content?

 

[Vold]

Oh, so in SG there won't be any way to start completely over from scratch?

I believe there will be a way to start from scratch, but unlike Exanima, in Sui Generis if you die you reincarnate in another body and it is possible to continue with your adventure in the same world (although naked and possibly less powerful (if someone absorbed your thaumaturge powers)).

@pareod Somewhere I read that the world of SG will as big as the recent elder scrolls games (Skyrim or so). Also, there will be a large underworld, so the "world" will be pretty vast. Exanima (the prelude) takes place in a part of the underworld, so it's much smaller in scale, although I am afraid that it will take several hours to play through it.

 

[ZaratanCho]

Origins was pretty great.

Since all NPC's will have their own dynamic goals and personalities and make decisions based on many variables when things happen it's hard to imagine the world to "stop moving"(You will be able to make a new worlds as well and play with your character). And SG is indeed trying to do something a lot more advanced in the AI and world than any game i know of by far(as well as physics and combat).

If you are translating what you read in updates and comments about SG to what other games do, games like dragon age or divinity it is nothing alike(I liked divinity a good deal, but you can't impact the story and almost no room for role play ;d).

Things are not scripted in SG, you don't know what will happen if you do something. The characters will decide when the situation occurs(by the way i don't think that is how someone becomes king, usually ;d maybe a wanted criminal).
Since i suck i will paste a part of a recent interview Madoc did, if you haven't seen it. I think this explains bare mettle's goals pretty well. The question about content and how much hours you might spend doesn't make sense to me in general and is very dependant on yourself, also considering the nature of the game and that there isn't even an alpha out yet for SG ;d

Madoc: This is quite a broad topic but hopefully I’ve already given a sense of what we’re trying to accomplish here. The aim is to allow the player to be able to undertake any initiative that might make sense to them. The disguise is one of many things which could work in the real world and the player might arrive at intuitively. In this case you might have used brute force, a distraction, a bribe, any number of thaumaturgic powers or even found a way to enter the citadel legitimately.

All NPCs serve their own interests and make dynamic decisions before taking any action, with a huge number of factors being considered. You can never be sure what to expect because an NPC could at any point decide that what’s expected of them isn’t in their best interest. We’re building complex personality models, requirements and incentives for all activities that are detailed enough to be influenced by almost anything you do or happens.

IG: How would conversational options work with NPCs?

Madoc: While we’ve already prototyped dialogue, this is still in development. To be honest we’re still not entirely sure just how much we’ll be able to accomplish and it’s something we’re likely to continue expanding on after release. It shares a lot with how we drive story and events in general. The aim is to provide deep story which isn’t rigid and dumb to circumstance.

Whilst there more structured events where there is specific dialogue associated with specific characters, there are also roles that are interchangeable and many common behaviours that are always possible under the right circumstances.

Story progresses regardless of your involvement. What you say or do might affect its course, or grant you a certain role within it, but everything is always subject to change and just about any outcome. If none of the outcomes we specifically planned is possible then so be it, that’s how the story went. Anything can happen and we’re building this in a way that we can continue to expand on what “anything” might be.

In terms of actual dialogue options you will be given some that belong to roles you might have adopted and other less specific and unrelated options. You’re never locked into some sort of dialogue mode, you can say nothing and walk away, rudely talk over someone, address someone else or do anything else you want.

 

[Parco]

@Vold you will loose some of your thaumaturge powers anyway on death i think, someone can absorb some of your lost power if they are witnessing your death.

i think the main quest will be a bit scripted (one or more persons with a set goal that they will try to carry out no matter what almost) but can be interrupted directly or indirectly by the player, for example; you killed the first random person you saw when starting the game and that happened to be the main protagonist in the main story who was plotting to assassinate the king and throughout the rest of the play through you continue adventuring never knowing what could have happened. or you buy a sword from a blacksmith, but when the main protagonist comes to buy a sword the blacksmith is all out at that moment so he has to go somewhere else, on his way he gets ambushed by bandits and killed.
to know what is happening around the world i dont think the information pool will be at only one character in a area, but probably will be spread out to different npc's in form of witnesses and rumors. a herald will probably have more correct information in some cases, but could also have information thats manipulated by more powerful people.
you can kill the king if you want and get the opportunity to, but i doubt they will make you their new king just because you assassinated the old one, most likely you will be swarmed with guards/knights and killed.

 

[Tony]

Anyways I read update #2 and, as a lover and critic of games, the ideas look promising and unique, but not so extraordinarily revolutionary that "words would not be enough" to describe it. The question now becomes how much autonomous content can the devs create before the world simply stops moving? Perhaps certain major story arcs would need to be triggered so that the player doesn't miss out on everything. I'm sure there will be the herald in every town letting the player know what is happening where. There are bound to be countless quest-breaking bugs in the case that the player does something the game does not expect, but even that could be handled intelligently and crafted into the story. The other question is how much power will the player have? Say I kill a king, can I usurp the title and rule? Will there then be alliances, taxes, and army systems to use? The game looks great, but it needs a little clarity for those of us who don't want to buy something that could very easily turn into "You have so much freedom that you should script events yourself!" I'm sure this wouldn't happen, but at least with a game like Divinity: Original Sin I knew that I would be getting a lot of playtime with a game that had character and mechanic advancement as I played.

One last question: in terms of scale and content, are we talking Diablo I which offered a good bit of content and progression, or Diablo II which offered a much more immense and expansive amount of content?

I don't think you quite understand how the devs are designing the game. Quests cannot be broken in Sui Generis since there will be no quests to begin with. The game will not be structured like a typical RPG where the game only progresses after selecting dialogue option A, B, or C.

SG will not be player-centric; instead there will be events that occur regardless of whether or not you (the player) are involved. Since the game isn't player-centric you cannot break the game by not being in the right place at the right time. The player is treated just like any other NPC as far as events are concerned. If you are present while an event is taking place you can choose to get involved or not. What events you take part in is completely up to you and if you aren't present for an event then it doesn't really matter since your character does not drive the game forward. However, not taking part in an event means that you obviously will not be able to influence said event (for better or for worse).

The game does not have a linear story; the game will have a series of events and consequences and every time you play how events unfold will likely be different. This is what the "story" is going to be made up of. It's up to the player to figure out what is going on and what they want to get involved with. Whatever you choose to do will have consequences and the world will react to whatever actions you choose. It's a very dynamic and reactive system so breaking it shouldn't be a problem. It's designed around the player being creative and doing things the devs haven't predicted. It's not the type of game that forces you down a narrow and linear path.

What makes this possible is that NPC's will have advanced AI which will allow them to make their own choices; they'll have their own goals, motivations, emotions and they'll be capable of constantly determining what is occurring around them and reacting to it. Basically anything a player character can do so can the NPC.

 

[Murf]

I don't think you quite understand how the devs are designing the game. Quests cannot be broken in Sui Generis since there will be no quests to begin with. The game will not be structured like a typical RPG where the game only progresses after selecting dialogue option A, B, or C.

SG will not be player-centric; instead there will be events that occur regardless of whether or not you (the player) is involved. Since the game isn't player-centric you cannot break the game by not being in the right place at the right time. The player is treated just like any other NPC as far as events are concerned. If you are present while an event is taking place you can choose to get involved or not. What events you take part in is completely up to you and if you aren't present for an event then it doesn't really matter since your character does not drive the game forward. However, not taking part in an event means that you obviously will not be able to influence said event (for better or for worse).

The game does not have a linear story; the game will have a series of events and consequences and every time you play how events unfold will likely be different. This is what the "story" is going to be made up of. It's up to the player to figure out what is going on and what they want to get involved with. Whatever you choose to do will have consequences and the world will react to whatever actions you choose. It's a very dynamic and reactive system so breaking it shouldn't be a problem. It's designed around the player being creative and doing things the devs haven't predicted. It's not the type of game that forces you down a narrow and linear path.

What makes this possible is that NPC's will have advanced AI which will allow them to make their own choices, have their own goals and motivations, their own emotions and be capable of constantly determining what is occurring around them and reacting to it. Basically anything a player character can do so can the NPC.

@pareod This^^^

As I stated, you need to take everything you think you know about rpg's and how they are 'supposed' to be played and forget them.

 

[Vold]

As others have said, this is going to be a very living world. If I am allowed to speculate a little, here is an example of what I expect it to be:

Let's use as an example, an event that may occur if you are an adventurer and also the lord of a keep (sort of like, the warden's keep of DA:O). After an adventure you arrive at the keep and there is a peasant who is seeking for your help. He reports to you that bandits have taken over his farm and demands you to get rid of them. From this moment, you can choose whether to help him or not with his troubles. But it's merely a side quest which will reward you with some reputation, gold or whatever. The sacking did not have to occour for this event to be triggered, but it was triggered, because of a script that said that at certain moment of your characters progression based on certain variables, a peasant would spawn in the keep and request some dialog with the main character, at the same time, bandits spawn in his farm, along with some gameobjects, such as wreckage, fire, etc.
Now, let's think about how this could happen in Sui Generis. First of all, let's assume that you managed to become a lord of certain keep. So, after an adventure you arrive at the keep and there is a peasant who is seeking for your help. He reports to you that a bandits have taken over his farm and demands you to get rid of them. For this to happen, there will have to be NPCs that behave like bandits and due to certain goals they decide to form a group, then eventually, while travelling they find a farm near your keep and decide to attack it, at the same time, the farm's owner decides that he is not strong enough to fight against them and decides to run away and see the help of the lord of the keep (he may not even manage to run away from the bandits, in that case you'd have never seen him waiting for you). Maybe, he will have to ask some guards whether or not you are in the keep and they tell him that you are going to arrive soon, so he decides to wait for you at the keep. In the meanwhile, the bandits may have burned out the farm, or may have just left the place, or may still be there taking a nap, or whatever they decide to do. Yo may choose to help the peasant or not, based on that the image of yourself will be modified based on his behaviour, emotions, etc... . If you choose to help the peasant there may be several ways for the events to unfold, because it will depend on what the thugs have been doing in the meanwhile, their behaviour, their emotions, whether if they trust eachother or not... there will be a chance for a thug to decide that he likes that farm and wants to settle down, so he kills all his comrades and hides the bodies, and when you arrive he does not look like a bandit at all, but like a peasant and warns you that there might be a traveller claiming that he is the owner of that farm... pretty crazy stuff could happen... I could keep going but I guess that I made my point.

In conclusion, the events will have to occour for real in this game for other situations to arise. It's not gonna be like anything we have experienced before.

 

[Psychomorph]

Hot phase of development.

 

[Don Kanaille]

Oh, so in SG there won't be any way to start completely over from scratch?

If I had to guess, I´d say there is gonna be a "new game" button. Why wouldnt there be? Given that the game world changes drastically over time, it would be really strange to not be able to start with a new, not yet entangled world.

Either that or it simply saves per character.

 

[Tony]

If I had to guess, I´d say there is gonna be a "new game" button. Why wouldnt there be? Given that the game world changes drastically over time, it would be really strange to not be able to start with a new, not yet entangled world.

Either that or it simply saves per character.

Madoc said previously that you can use the same character to join other games/worlds so I don't think it's tied to your character. I think it will simply spawn a new "instance" of the world and each world instance is persistent. He also said that specific items like player housing will be tied to your character so if you join a different game instance you will still have access to your house.