Lindybeige Educates you on Medieval Warfare

[SpaceKing]

So I think this guy might be a point of interest to the developers of Sui Generis; Lindybeige, a youtuber who makes short videos educating people about the realism of medieval warfare, life and other topics.

http://www.youtube.com/user/lindybeige/videos

A couple points of interest for specifics;

Lit Torches, should not appear in ancient crypts:

Sabres, and how to hold them:

Mail, of the Chain variety:

Shields, and the physics of it all:

Double-bitted Fantasy Axes, are kind of silly:

Longbows, are good at sticking the french:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZpDIpqDwxI

And the big one, The Katana... is rubbish:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLWzH_1eZsc

Not sure how useful these videos might be to the developers and fans of Generis, but considering how the game has a wonderful physics engine for its combat, it might benefit from a more realistic take on a fantasy world, both in the combat and everyday life. Particularly the bit about dungeons not having lit torches, because just who is lighting them? The zombies? It'd be more immersive to always have a light source on hand.

 

[nox]

I think his videos have come up before on these forums, but I really enjoy them so I don't mind

 

[Dragomir]

I've seen all of his videos and even though I don't agree with everything, vast majority of what he says really is very good points. I especially recommend this one:

It changed my view of weaponry in fantasy games very much.

 

[Komuflage]

He does make some good points. However, it's a fantasy world, hence unreal things can occur. (kina why it's called fantasy)

Torches in dungeons can be lit by magic. An old watchkeeper could have been cursed then he died, and is doomed to forever wander the dungeon and keep the torches lit etc (Although I would think it was fun if we were forced to use some kind of light source in some dungeons at least, I often turned down the brightness in Tes4, just so I was forced to use the torches)
And it would also be fun if a normal sword won't work at all against dragons (if they're included, which I hope but doubt) or similar colossal creatures.

And the Katana for instance, I understand it sucks at armour piercing, but I don't get how it's rubbish? He just talked about how a Katana can slice an unarmoured man in half 3 times, and then 4 minutes about eu-swords.
But from what I understand a normal longsword couldn't pierce armour that well either?

Anyways, imo I like the idea of full-plate being really hard to pierce in the game, as irl, and not every weapon working against every type armour. Since this ads some planning to the game, instead of the usual, "this sword have 200damage, hence I'll use it in every encounter". But I still think a Katana should be able to kill someone in leather armour. And a longsword being able to kill a knight in plate.

If you've played Mount and blade then u can pretty much use any weapon against any armour, sure it's difficult to kill a knight in plate with a longsword, and it takes a while, but it's still possible.

That way u still need to think about what type of weapons to bring with u, and use against different type of enemy's, but, you won't get up against a knight and simple not being able to kill him.

In other word, mix "real world simulation" with fantasy. (Which from my understanding is what BM is doing)

 

[Pilluminati]

I understand there's no need to exaggerate the realism, but god please no dragons.

 

[Dragomir]

Well, I have a different view on that. Some fantasy that leans towards realism can be a simulation of a world that has magic instead of simply being a fairytale in which dragons are best killed by sword&board. Besides - you can go incredibly creative designing a weapon that is specialised for killing certain kind of monster I mentioned this in the melee combat thread.

About the lights - situational awareness is the most important thing a fighter must have. Light playing a big role in gameplay in my opinion would be a great addition. You'd have to bring some lightsource with you (perhaps magical) and maybe even light up some objects in envronment like oil lamps and candles to be able to fight properly. Many creatures could also have some buffs for staying in the dark, since they live underground anyway. In places that have to be lit all the time I think magical light could suffice.

 

[Parco]

I understand there's no need to exaggerate the realism, but god please no dragons.

dragons too real for you?

 

[cosmo bozo]

If there is dragons or similarly huge monsters...then I'd like the way of fighting them to be based around planning and co operation, building a pit trap, or raising an army/hunting party or something like that rather than just being able to wade in and hit it.
there are a lot of animals here and now on earth that would comprehensively kick your arse if you tried to attack them with a sword, never mind dragons.

Those Lindybeige videos are very good, I've seen them before. Some of the stuff I'd never thought of but some, like the torches in castles/dungeons for example, he's just saying pretty much what I've always thought.
the film people just do it because it looks good on screen, but it would be nice for SG to be more realistic.

 

[nox]

I also hope we won't see dragons in this game. But if there were, it would be hilarious to just walk up to it and try to hit it, and when it hit back you'd just fly away like a little toy. This applies to all large creatures in a physics based game.
And we have already seen what the ogres can do.

 

[Komuflage]

Ofc you shouldn't be able to just walk up to a dragon and hit it. But I would still like if they were included.

Again, Mix fantasy an real life, just use logic.
For instance, a dragon could exist in our world (T-rex with wings pretty much) but being able to kill it with a simple sword wouldn't work very well.

I quote: "Some fantasy that leans towards realism can be a simulation of a world that has magic instead of simply being a fairytale in which dragons are best killed by sword&board."

 

[cosmo bozo]

I also hope we won't see dragons in this game. But if there were, it would be hilarious to just walk up to it and try to hit it, and when it hit back you'd just fly away like a little toy. This applies to all large creatures in a physics based game.
And we have already seen what the ogres can do.

Whilst that would be cool, I'd rather it just ate you..
It's always bugged me in games with dangerous creatures, that they make a kill then lose interest and wander off...in exactly the way that real predators don't.

 

[Dragomir]

I really liked it in Gothic Not only you were killed by predators in forests, after they bite you to death you could just watch your character being eaten by it

Actually, that's a suggestion I'd like to make, but not in this thread, as it's in no way linked to Lloyd and his points.

 

[Happycrow]

I'm a medieval weapons and warfare expert (yes, in RL: my articles are required reading at some colleges). So I like the material culture of my fantasy to be seriously realistic and regularly "consult" with guys doing arms and armor stuff. On the other hand, my wife really likes her "axes that belong on heavy-metal covers," and, can I blame her, really? They're facepalm-over-the-top, but that's kind of the point.

 

[SpaceKing]

My point was that if the game has this new physics system, it'd be better to find inspiration from actual combat physics than from videogame fighting. It often has a detraction from reality, sometimes alarmingly so. The more nuance and detail there is in a system, the more fun it is to develop your own way to play.

I think a dragon would be possible to kill if it had the classic "unarmoured belly/throat" trick, where you had to maneuver in close to its gut and hack away because all other parts of it are hard as diamond. The real classic dragon type. But again, yeah, a dragon would need to be incredibly powerful if it was implemented.

I would hope they might put in some creatures that cannot be killed in the normal way. Maybe vampires that must be impaled, dark creatures who are only harmed by fire or light sources, creatures with aversion to silver or holy artefacts, or even a hydra whose heads grow back when you chop them off. Considering the flailing nature of this combat, fighting a hydra would be amazing. Imagine all those heads swinging about, hissing at you.

 

[Happycrow]

Most fantasy combat becomes basically a case of "human goes squish" if made realistic.
Think about it. I have perfect proportion and average height (6'180 in Imperial terms). It is literally more fair for me to fight Mike Tyson or Lou Ferrigno than it would be for me to fight a six-year-old (so much for plucky halflings). "Knockdown on hit" is the gentle, understated version. At ten feet tall, anything wielding a weapon appropriate for its size more or less ignores any armor I'm wearing for purposes of beating the crap out of me.

And then we get to things like dragons. The scales don't have to be as hard as diamonds: hard as oak or cuirboilli, on a limb that's twice as thick as my torso, is lets even a runty dragon smash armies with impunity.