Multiplayer

Komuflage

Insider
Sorry but this not a simple thing to say as 'customization' dude and you know that ! :p Just dream the humongous difference if DS ever had FF off between summons and summoners. Summoner would had to think for the second time, or third even fourth since there would be world of differences in invasions.
You can't make that comparison, since DS is not a Co-op game, and in ds everyone "is" on the same server. It's an "open environment"

While a game like SG in Lan, would be a "closed environment", only people I want to be able to join me, will be able to join me, in difference from Dark/Demon's souls.

And second but not least, again on same game but different example; imagine if DS would have difficulty levels to choose from, would it be same with the game as of now named as 'Dark/Deamon's Souls' ?
Would it have the same impact on marketing and on players as of now ? Just think :p
No, but this ain't DS.

Ds is a online game focused on hardcore gamers so a difficult slider just wouldn't work.

Now we don't exactly now what crowd SG is focusing on yet. Although it's leaning towards Hardcore players.

Now if SG would have a online system similar to DS, then I would understand, but as a single/co-op game. I would like to be able to tune up the difficulty so I can get a real challenge.

However I agree with scarecrow that, just increasing hp and damage won't work out well.
 

Mello

Insider
Difficulty levels exist so that every player can experience everything within a game, regardless of skill level. The point of games with difficulty levels is for every player to see the whole game. Sui Generis (and the Souls series) are games which have a different point. They exist to provide a particular challenge or experience, and part of that challenge/experience is the fact that the game isn't catering to you.

It would be like adding difficulty levels to online multiplayer in Call of Duty so less skilled players can experience what it's like to kill more skilled players.
 
But if you are too good to be challenged by the initial difficulty, then the game fails you in a sense. So if the easiest difficulty was hard to the average person but could be increased for better players everybody wins (except rubbish players).
 

Komuflage

Insider
Difficulty levels exist so that every player can experience everything within a game, regardless of skill level. The point of games with difficulty levels is for every player to see the whole game. Sui Generis (and the Souls series) are games which have a different point. They exist to provide a particular challenge or experience, and part of that challenge/experience is the fact that the game isn't catering to you.

It would be like adding difficulty levels to online multiplayer in Call of Duty so less skilled players can experience what it's like to kill more skilled players.
then instead of having easy, medium and hard, you would have "Hard, Brutal and Impossible" Hence you the targeted crowd are forced into a challenge, but better players can still have challenge.

Now we've talked before about NG+, and NG+ Would most likely be more difficult. then why not just ad a option so you start in NG+.
That way "Sui Generis (and the Souls series) are games which have a different point. They exist to provide a particular challenge or experience, and part of that challenge/experience is the fact that the game isn't catering to you." would still be true, but for better players as well.
 

Komuflage

Insider
em, wow, I was typing so fast, and it got a bit messed up.
"Hence you the targeted crowd" was not supposed to be targeted at you. so ignore the "You" in the sentence (Was supposed to write, hence you would be forced into a challenge, and changed the sentence midway) :oops:
 

Tony

Insider
I believe a lot of the difficulty in SG will be determined by the choice(s) a player makes in the game. Since the world is free roaming and dynamic I believe the outcome (and how difficult success/failure is) will be largely determined by the action(s) a player chooses. For example; say player A rushes into a cave haphazardly without doing any research or preparation beforehand. Player A is most likely going to have a very difficult time if they encounter a powerful being/monster inside said cave.

Player B takes a different approach to exploring the same cave. Player B first asks nearby villagers about the cave in hopes of gathering useful information in order to prepare for their spelunking adventure. The villagers inform Player B that a not-so-friendly monster who goes by the name of Madoc inhabits said cave. After buying the villagers a few pints of ale they also mention that this monster named Madoc absolutely hates smiles in all shapes and forms but has a soft spot for cuddly teddy bears.

Suddenly Player B has many options available. They could wait and attempt to become more powerful by learning more skills before rushing into said cave to defeat this teddy bear loving monstrosity. Or they could try to find a mercenary that would accompany them into the cave. Perhaps they could try their luck by wearing a frowning mask into the cave and bribing Madoc with a pink teddy bear.

In this way I think many things which might at first seem very difficult/impossible might later become more feasible. There is standard character progression (learning new skills/improving skill competency/getting better gear) and then there is the variable of how difficult a player chooses to make the game by the choices they make. If done well I do not think a difficulty slider would be necessary. Perhaps a "hardcore" mode could be enabled which tweaks some settings to make things more difficult for those who are extremely talented gamers or those who are playing the game for 300+ hours and need more of a challenge.
 

malfunction

Member
Just diverting the conversation a bit, how do you guys think death will be implemented and will impact a LAN game?

If a friend dies, will it be possible to revive them? Will they respawn as a random person at the other side of the map? Will they be able to loot each others bodies? Will they have to restart the entire game to get them back?

I think any kind of respawning would cheapen the difficulty, but would be the easiest way of handling it. For most people, it'd be a pain in the ass if one of their friends dies and they have to restart the game.
 
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Komuflage

Insider
Just diverting the conversation a bit, how do you guys think death will be implemented and will impact a LAN game?

If a friend dies, will it be possible to revive them? Will they respawn as a random person at the other side of the map? Will they be able to loot each others bodies? Will they have to restart the entire game to get them back?

I think any kind of respawning would cheapen the difficulty, but would be the easiest way of handling it. For most people, it'd be a pain in the ass if one of their friends dies and they have to restart the game.
Respawning is already confirmed; when you die you loss all/most of your gear. You wont respawn as a random person, rather your character reincarnates. About the distance, I don't know. I'm assuming it won't be to far away, but not near enough to just get right back at the fight.

Resurrection of others is a nice idea, having a power that revives a fallen person (or creature) sounds great.

I guess the Light and Body forms would fit here.
 

Empire²

Insider
I have a couple of ideas for multiplayer, as well as some questions.

I always think RPGs are more enjoyable if you find someone to play along with. They're not games you can sit down and play for "a bit". You literally need to sit down and get into it, which is a lot more than you can say for your average FPS game. However, there are a lot of ways to make multiplayer more accessible, to allow players to hop in and play for 30 minutes then logging off after.

Things like matches are not exactly something you find an awful lot in RPGs. The closest thing to a match in an RPG would have to be some sort of large scale PvP event in an MMO. I think, that with the realistic, tactical and not to forget fun combat system, various sorts of matches would work very well. Perhaps a Free For All in a Colosseum-style arena, where you get to customise your weapons and armour, and choose the best tools by having a look at what everyone is using.

Gamemodes that I think would fit nicely, if tailored to work:

Team Deathmatch & Free For All
Simple, good ole' versions of TDM and FFA. Teams could end up being quite big, if the maps support it. Imagine Battlefield-style open levels, like a city. Your team of 8 starts on one end, the other team on the other. You can literally charge straight through the main streets like a bulldozer, swinging left and right with a giant maul as you go head-first into a crowd of enemies, or you could be tactical and divide your team into 4 squads of 2, and split into all the alleyways, setting up an ambush for the unwary. This would definitely work, especially using options like turning Friendly Fire off, or turn off special types of weapons to encourage people to try something else (Turning off all blunt weapons, turning off thaumaturgic powers as a whole or separate powers, or giving everyone a standard kit of weapons and armour to level the playing field.). The maps for FFA would be significantly smaller, and allow for the same customisation and options.

Siege/Capture The Objective
Setting up levels with a short story that introduces you to two sides of a conflict. A siege would obviously be one team defending their castle from the other, with sub-objectives like "Capture the Eastern Gate" and "Capture the Throne Room". Castles would be outfitted with their normal defence mechanisms like murder holes, fire pits for archers to light their arrows and more.

Capture The Objective would be a bit different. You get thrown into a situation that is pre-made, with a short story to describe the position you're in and the objective both teams have. A good example would be something along these lines:
"Your convoy is tired. Charged with the security of a rich and influential Lord's treasury, you're transporting a chest full of gold and other valuables. The night is cold and dark; the rhythmic drum of hooves the only thing keeping you awake. Suddenly, somewhere off the road, a rustling of leaves. A thunderous sound becomes more and more audible, as twigs crack and a silhouette becomes visible in the darkness. Out of nowhere, a giant boulder shoots out of the foliage, narrowly avoiding you as you dive out of the way. With a loud crash, the boulder obliterates the carriage you were charged to protect. In the dark you can hear battle-cries, as arrows whiz past you and armed men appear out of the cover of the trees."

This situation would drop you on the side defending the convoy. A carriage is crashed on the middle of the road, the chest on the ground, there for the taking. Enemy players are coming out of nowhere, inferiorly armed but great in number, making dashes to take this chest to their camp nearby. Should they succeed in doing so, they will get the objective to defend their camp, and the convoy to reclaim the chest from there. If they do not succeed in taking the chest from the wreckage though, the objective for the convoy will stay for them to protect the carriage.

The other side would obviously have a different story, but the biggest difference would be your kit. The convoy is heavily armed, whereas the ambushers are not. The balance would be 3 against 6, or 4 against 5. You get to customise your weapons a little bit, so you'll be able to get a good variety of weaponry against your opponents.

This is a nice way of setting up small stories in a competitive environment, and giving the players some interesting scenarios to delve into!

Duel
Probably the most obvious competitive gamemode for an RPG. You choose your kit and just battle it out one on one with whatever weapons and armour you choose. Would have arenas that are not very large, perhaps with some environmental danger to them (Fire, falling, etc.). Maybe the ability to set up a tournament with custom sizes and options like weapons, armour and thaumaturgy. You could create a tournament where nobody has any armour, and has a weapon that could literally kill with a single blow. Alternatively, you can set up a tournament where you have very little else than your thaumaturgic powers. Maybe some leaderboards, a lobby system where you get to invite someone to a duel and lots of customisation options.

Co-Op Campaign
Obviously the most important gamemode. You can invite a friend to your world, and they'll join at your position or alternatively where they were when they left last session. Just like NPCs will react to your deeds, they will react to your partner's also. A city guard may tell you he thinks you're a lot more noble than your friend, and that you could teach him a thing or two about manners. Some children might tell your friend that they think he's probably the stronger of the two, and could defeat him in battle easily.

With a dynamic world and reputation/relation system, you can get a lot of cool dynamics going, like "The Young Knight & The Thief" or "The Old Thaumaturge & The Mercenary". You will feel compelled to talk to townsfolk more and explore, just to see what people have to say about you and your companion, and to work together on solving problems with the skills your character has developed and is praised for by the world around them!


I understand that most Multiplayer Gamemodes do not fit with the overall theme of the main game. I think though, and this has been said more often, that Sui Generis is a fairly obscure game. It's something you either adore or despise, clear and set on what it is and pure. I think though, that with a combat system and physics as realistic and hilarious as this one, you will want to share that experience with others in small bursts. Not everyone likes taking 3 hours out of their day to get ahead in a big questline.

A lot of RPGs have done this right. Mount & Blade is one of the best examples. While clearly not the strong suit of the games, the mechanics make for an interesting fight against actual people. The same goes for games like Chivalry and War Of The Roses, even though those are in their very nature competitive games.

Tl;dr
There is a lot of potential to make competitive gamemodes something that compliments the game rather than weighs it down. In any tactical game, you wonder how you would do against a friend rather than the AI, which I feel goes with Sui Generis very well.
 

Parco

Moderator
what would be fun is if only necromancers can resurrect stuff, and those you resurrect becomes undead.
undead things have lower base hp and slower movements but high resistant/immune to poisons and different debuffs/curses.
so if you want to play as a undead you gotta make someone resurrect you, this could offer some fun alternative gameplay, and also would be fun to see how npcs would react to you
 

Komuflage

Insider
Having pvp game modes like TDM, and Siege is something I haven't even considerated but I think it can really be amazing.

However, what I'm looking forward to most (And hopefully the game will allow it) is to play with 3-5 friends, and divide into 2 groups (Evil and Good) The teams would separate completely. And the goal would simply be to complete the main story, while the Good team tries to help the citizen and do the noble things in quests/events, the Evil team would do the opposite, killing civs, stealing etc. The fact that real players are behind the numbers of your foes can greatly enhance the whole experience and I can imagine some scenarios were the Good and Evil clash together at the street, or in some major event.
 

Empire²

Insider
Having pvp game modes like TDM, and Siege is something I haven't even considerated but I think it can really be amazing.

However, what I'm looking forward to most (And hopefully the game will allow it) is to play with 4-6 friends, and divide into 2 groups (Evil and Good) The teams would separate completely. And the goal would simply be to complete the main story, while the Good times try to help the citizen and do the noble things in quests/events, the Evil team would do the opposite, killing civs, stealing etc. The fact that real players are behind the numbers of your foes can greatly enhance the whole experience and I can imagine some scenarios were the Good and Evil clash together at the street, or in some major event.
If you were to know enough people to do that, you could totally organise a regular LAN party for both team to play simultaneously. Funny, actually something I don't think I've ever really seen done before.

If you are truly able to send mercenaries or bandits after other players using your influence or your gold, that would be utterly amazing.
 

malfunction

Member
I think this game really lends itself to the LAN environment. Much more so than online play, in my opinion. Gives a real tabletop RPG D&D vibe.
 

Komuflage

Insider
I think this game really lends itself to the LAN environment. Much more so than online play, in my opinion. Gives a real tabletop RPG D&D vibe.
This is what I really like about it, really looking forward to spending hours in a lan party.
If any of the devs got the time to answer whatever my above idea (Last post) would be possible, I would be much obliged
 
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