Shield Issues and Weapons with "Thrust Damage"

[Advisor]

Currently running beta branch 0.6.1.0

Shield issue:

Ive noticed whenever using a one hander + shield that if I am in the middle of any sort of attack be, it the beginning of a swing to end of a swing or even if I get clipped while holding the attack button for a split second for a feint if the enemy so much as touches my shield with his weapon while "attacking" I take quite a bit of damage.

Thrust weapons:

I am terrified of enemies that use things like daggers and swords or any weapon that has thrust damage on it. (thrusting isn't in this version yet but the weapons have the stats) I am pretty sure the thrust damage is on the normal swings of the weapons that have these stats because I've lost 2 characters decked out in chain mail/plate one to a dagger user and one 2 handed sword user that 3 shot me. All of the damage taken is 95% red damage. Armor doesn't seem to have any sort of "thrust" mitigation as far as I can tell so I'm thinking all of this thrust damage is bypassing armor and any damage protection I have just on the swings.

Quick thought on arena:

In the new arena I might suggest setting the 1v1 opponents farther back or more prepared to fight. 9 out 10 matches if I start the round holding forward and make a standard right to left swing I end up getting I direct shot to their dome. Doubley so with any kind of polearm like the hook or bill.

Either way having a blast testing this out and figured I'd let you know what I found in my experiences so far.

 

[Space Warlock]

As for the "Thrusting Weapons" killing your guys. The daggers are extremely sharp for the tier they're in, and there isn't any real good armor options in the same tier to counter the blade slicing you open, usually its only padded cloth in the Aspirant tier. Also for the 2h sword three hitting you, it may be in the gaps of your armor (Legs, face if helmet is open, hands). Slashing damage isn't added on top of the cutting damage they do, slashing just hurts

 

[Madoc]

Shields will be completely overhauled soon, but you do take some stamina damage if you're hit on the shield while not defending. This is intended behaviour.

That's slashing damage, not thrusting. Stacking even just heavy cloth is quite effective against slashing. Thrust is always piercing damage and only applies on thrusts. Either way armour is locational, so you can wear all the chest protection in the world but if you get hit on your expoosed face you'll still take serious damage.

 

[NachoDawg]

Hey @Madoc I've often wondered, does the clothes/armor that consist of different material protect differently on their respective areas? For example: does the leather straps (that goes around the back) on the plate armors count as "leather material" or do they and the plate use the stats as shown in the item description?

*edit: he answered me in murph's stream and said in the example of the breast plate, the back straps have a lesser defense stat than the metal plate, and are considered a weak spot

 

[Advisor]

Shields will be completely overhauled soon, but you do take some stamina damage if you're hit on the shield while not defending.This is intended behaviour.

This makes a lot of sense and I'm totally ok with this idea. I was not certain if this was intended or not but thanks for clearing this up!

That's slashing damage, not thrusting. Stacking even just heavy cloth is quite effective against slashing. Thrust is always piercing damage and only applies on thrusts. Either way armour is locational, so you can wear all the chest protection in the world but if you get hit on your expoosed face you'll still take serious damage.

With the daggers/swords I'm still not entirely sold that this is working properly. I do understand the locational damage protection you receive from armour and clothing. I have taken the tiniest slashes to the chest multiple times while wearing:

gambeson (superior): 2.5 dots slash protection
leather jacket (fine): 1 dot
chain shirt (superior): 4 dots
leather vest: 2 dots

vs daggers 3 dots of slashing damage but also sporting a nice 2 to 3.5 thrust damage mod on them.

With 9.5 dots of slash protection the dagger still takes chunks of red damage from the smallest of movements from while fumbling around not even full wide armed swings. This is from watching the dagger graze my chest and leaving just tons of blood all over the place dead center in the chest area and losing about 10%~15% red health damage and maybe 1%~2% stamina damage. This is a consistent thing not a one time "well I guess he got me in the neck/side/chink in my armour" kind of thing.

And dear god if it touches my leg or arm its just brutal. But if this is correct then I guess I just need to be terrified of daggers and swords... and they don't even thrust with them yet in this version lol.

With the two handed sword I took a swing to the chest and lost 30%~40% red health damage center mass same gear. This is when this particular character DIED died. The other attacks hit my arm and did about the same amount of damage and then he took one to the leg and died. Once again maybe 1%~2% stamina damage on the hits but that didn't matter much.

(By the way, no criticisms here on any of these ideas. I'm just trying to make sure things are working as intended and if this is as intended I'm totally fine with it. Daggers and swords are sharp. I get it.)

Either way thanks for the response Madoc. I am both honoured and humbled by your presence. Can't wait to see what else you guys have in store!

 

[Murf]

I do not think the pips for each stat work even steven with offense/defense.

 

[Advisor]

I'm not saying they do but I can see from my explanation why you might think I thought that. I'm just pointing out the fact that a dagger is slashing through 4 layers of armour for pretty much pure red damage.

 

[oldnorsehero]

It sounds like everyone playing the new arena mode has come across at least one weapon that seems to hate them. With me, it's the butcher knife, I hate that weapon, but I've learned to keep my distance and close distance to add momentum to my swing, or go around and hit their flank. You can't let those guys get close or you face the horrible threat of death hahaha

 

[attila16]

The key is to have chain mail on all body parts, you rarely take health damage with chain mail

For example, here is one of my character that has a relatively light armor yet barely ever take health damage. You can essentially use that Chain once you reach Adept. Prior to having that, keep your distance...