Shields are broken.

Syllabear3

Member
I finally decided to make a shield user character and i can say its totally broken... with the right steps you can even bash them to the floor. There is absolute no chance that an human can be defeated using shield right now. Sometimes even npc can handle you because there are no openings.

Look this ive been shieldhandling this guy for like 5' (or more) throwing him everycorner, cleaning the floor with him and when i was tired i just smashed his face with the mace.

In this image i almost gets this dude inside that cage, i had a good laugh.

At this rate you may want to work in some command grab a push of any kind or something that i am unaware of... but something needs to be done with shield users.

This may be sound extreme but i stoped playing because i got tired of facing shileds. Shields are ruining this game, with all honestity.
 

Tony

Moderator
Sure. Do it against an human and get your weapon stuck on the shield all the time while being hit in the head (with a flanged mace).
There are still quite a few maneuvers, skills, techniques, etc. that are being added to Exanima/SG. All weapons will be getting a bash of some type and it'll be possible to alternate the hold/grip on some weapons as well (such as using the hammer side of a poleaxe or choking up on a polearm to use it at closer ranges).

However, as you can see in vids above I have no issue when fighting NPCs that use a shield and I'm looking forward to fighting actual people in PvP when it's possible to do so. Shield users leave plenty of openings yet they do require using different tactics than when facing off against someone that isn't using a shield (shield users intentionally have the highest defensive capabilities since that's the entire purpose of shield).
 

Syllabear3

Member
There are still quite a few maneuvers, skills, techniques, etc. that are being added to Exanima/SG. All weapons will be getting a bash of some type and it'll be possible to alternate the hold/grip on some weapons as well (such as using the hammer side of a poleaxe or choking up on a polearm to use it at closer ranges).

However, as you can see in vids above I have no issue when fighting NPCs that use a shield and I'm looking forward to fighting actual people in PvP when it's possible to do so. Shield users leave plenty of openings yet they do require using different tactics than when facing off against someone that isn't using a shield (shield users intentionally have the highest defensive capabilities since that's the entire purpose of shield).
Not sure why but ai in your pc seems really broke. In no way they would get those easy hits, unless you got those records that happens once in a while when ai acts really retarded...

Still ai is not using shields correctly, you are supposed to get close enough and stop enemies blow and hit at the same time. Still ai do not raise its shield (there is a way to quickly raise the shield) while facing the incoming blow and invade personal space to get enemies weapon stuck and attack (thats when ai starts ghosts hitting). Even doing those wide arcs would get you in troubles because using a shield you easily step back -> do a thrust attack and you are already body to body. Those thrust attacks set you really close to your oponent. You can move back all your want, even to sides, but there is a limit on the map and soon or later you are hitting the wall and thats when you are going to get spanked badly.
Using a flanged mace its absolutly savage, its impact and crushing blow its realy high... so even getting a single hit enemies really feel it, and more in the head.

Conclusion shields are the way to win this game.

Edit: i even forgot that you can ocasionally drop your enemy to the floor...
 

Tony

Moderator
The AI in my game works the same as in everyone elses' game (I haven't done anything to tweak it). I just have a significant amount of play time accumulated (around 4000 hours) so I have a lot of practice - the two vids posted above happened in the same elimination match so it's not a rare occurrence.

Yes, I've used shields before but I usually prefer more mobility/maneuverability so I don't have as many hours using shields as other weapon combinations.
 

Syllabear3

Member
Shields have great mobility... you just need to learn how to do it and its pretty easy. It doesnt has that, but the ability to nullify attacks and counter attack at the same time which is completly fucked up.

You don't need to have many hours with shield to understand what is broken. I bet that raising a character from inept to master using shield is enough with your 4k hours to discover everything that is broken and aknowledge it. And you can even refreshely "change your pace" while on it.

Just now i discovered something even worst to raise the shield even quicker and aproach to the enemy... it feels almost like a shield charge, lol.
 

Tony

Moderator
Shields have great mobility... you just need to learn how to do it and its pretty easy. It doesnt has that, but the ability to nullify attacks and counter attack at the same time which is completly fucked up.
This is working as intended and it's also possible to do this while dual wielding as well.
 

Syllabear3

Member
I know it is, and it has a special ability for it. One of the first abilities you need to learn to properly duel with shield.
When you feint a thrust when your enemy attacks, it looks like you are charging with the shield. Sometimes it throws the enemy to the floor, and sometimes you need to move the cursor to sides to throw them.
I honestly enjoyed discovering new stuff using shield, and also how imbalanced it can be.
 

Tony

Moderator
Here's a raw, unedited elimination match for comparison purposes just to show it's not a fluke that I can finish off shield users quickly. The shield user wasn't any more of a threat than any of the other opponents (yes, I'm aware that the NPCs don't take full advantage of a shield's capabilities just as they don't use any weapon(s) as well as a real player can):


Also note how I was mitigating damage received by moving in the same direction of incoming strikes, deflecting strikes with my own weapon, letting go of attack before I got hit, etc. so the several opponents I fought that were using flanged maces barely even scratched me. There's a lot of nuance to the combat and much of what I'm doing to quickly defeat opponents while avoiding harm probably isn't obvious but it has nothing to do with the AI not functioning properly ;).
 

Syllabear3

Member
But poles are way overkill for shields. And you do not need to take damage using poles, but yes i know that you can do certain moves to avoid being fully hit by sticking your character body to your oponent is one.

I would use the greatsword isntead of poles now, its like an upgrade.
---

Would upload a vid but its not funny working half day for it ;/
 

Tony

Moderator
Hmm so at first you claim the AI in my game is broken, then you claim polearms are too powerful for shields (which would mean shields aren't OP if they can be easily defeated with a polearm?)... so how about a one-handed sword:


As you can see at the start of the vid that's 'master' tier AI which means the most skilled in the game currently. I can defeat shield users using any weapon in the game relatively easily since I create and take advantage of openings, attack at angles, etc. rather than just attacking perfectly squared-up to the opponent which makes strikes very easy to block.

Another thing you can see in all of these vids is that I'm constantly moving/circling towards the center of the area we're fighting in so that I don't get cornered against a wall which gives me the option to attack/dodge in any direction and control the fight.
 

The Witcher

Supporter
Tony is a pretty good player if you know how to position yourself right and use footwork at the right time you can get hits vs shield players at the right time when they are even a bit exposed and some weapons like polearms can hit around the shield if you practice it a bit
 

Syllabear3

Member
Hmm so at first you claim the AI in my game is broken, then you claim polearms are too powerful for shields (which would mean shields aren't OP if they can be easily defeated with a polearm?)... so how about a one-handed sword:


As you can see at the start of the vid that's 'master' tier AI which means the most skilled in the game currently. I can defeat shield users using any weapon in the game relatively easily since I create and take advantage of openings, attack at angles, etc. rather than just attacking perfectly squared-up to the opponent which makes strikes very easy to block.

Another thing you can see in all of these vids is that I'm constantly moving/circling towards the center of the area we're fighting in so that I don't get cornered against a wall which gives me the option to attack/dodge in any direction and control the fight.
Isnt ai limited to shields? Like not using their full potential? I didnt see any opening just a npc fighter taking a blow to the face, when in my pc it even blocks not only with its shield but sometimes with their weapon too.
 

Tony

Moderator
Isnt ai limited to shields? Like not using their full potential? I didnt see any opening just a npc fighter taking a blow to the face, when in my pc it even blocks not only with its shield but sometimes with their weapon too.
No, NPC AI isn't limited in what skills they can use with shields, they can learn all of the same skills that the player can. On the other hand, a human player can figure out ways to utilize a shield in ways which the AI doesn't comprehend (that are unrelated to the in-game skills you can train). However, this isn't limited to only shields; players can do the same thing with any weapon.

The NPCs don't play any differently on my PC than they play on your PC (or anyone else's). The difference you're seeing is between how you and I play, not the decisions which the NPC's are making (it's the same program running the same code).
 

Syllabear3

Member
No, NPC AI isn't limited in what skills they can use with shields, they can learn all of the same skills that the player can. On the other hand, a human player can figure out ways to utilize a shield in ways which the AI doesn't comprehend (that are unrelated to the in-game skills you can train). However, this isn't limited to only shields; players can do the same thing with any weapon.

The NPCs don't play any differently on my PC than they play on your PC (or anyone else's). The difference you're seeing is between how you and I play, not the decisions which the NPC's are making (it's the same program running the same code).
Enough talking about ai... that doesnt quit that shields are unbalanced. And more since the last update that removed some of the abilities that no shield users could do, like parry and attack.
---

This apart... like i said before if it will be pvp then blocking should be totally handled by the player and not automatic. This game is slower and more boring now... parry and blocking and that sort of thing should be totally handled by the player or skill would be part artificial.
A key combination would be nicer so you need to move more your fingers. For example i stab when using shield and towards to the blow just to make it look cool... imagine if you actually need to press a combination of keys to block? Mastering the game would be even funnier.
 
Last edited:
Top

Home|Games|Media|Store|Account|Forums|Contact




© Copyright 2019 Bare Mettle Entertainment Ltd. All rights reserved.