Some combat thoughts.

Voxavs

Supporter
I've been playing the arena the whole evening yesterday and I really enjoyed the combat, but still there some things that I should point out, that are not really good.

First the good. The combat feels heavy and great in general, how weapons clash and you bump your oponent with your body - amazing feeling. Plus on the videos it's seems like a drunk people brawl, but when you play it yourself it's increadibly satisfying.

Bad. Character movements are unresponsive. Often you can't land a hit cos your char is too clumsy at walking and there's a delay between the button press and the actual move. Also sometimes he moves unpredictable. Collision detection is weird. Often the guy with the sickle on a long stick just puts it on my face and drags it left and right, which is not registred as damage. Often he hits me with it in the eye so strong, that I should insta die or go into coma. Same happens with the oponents when I see a hit, but there's no hit registered. For example I hit the girl with axe and shield with 2h hammer, it slides up her shield very fast, hits her head, no hit registered. Another thing is the first who landed the hit is the cool guy. It's really weird that a succsesfull hit always interupts the oponents hit, and even if it lands it does no damage. Also regarding head hits. There's no excuse for me or oponent not to die or be stunned after reseafing a heavy head hit, especially without any kind of helment. I chop you in the neck with a 2h sword and he's still running look at him. Makes a really bad impression. And the last thing there's not much in terms of controlling your attacks. The game desides from where it wants to swing, and overhead is imposible to trigger. Besides you can't stab people with swords which is kind of silly.
 

Tony

Insider
Overhands are impossible to trigger? Incorrect. Double click the left mouse button and hold it down to perform an overhand strike.

Character movement is not unresponsive it simply takes physics and momentum into consideration so of course there will not be instantaneous reactions. You have to actually observe what you are currently doing and take it into consideration before attempting to do something else. If you're throwing your weight one way it'll take a second to adjust if you want to move in the opposite direction, just as it should. Instantaneous reactions would totally bypass the physics and make them pointless. There is almost no input delay from when you press a button to the game registering that button press.

Being the first to land a strike does not guarantee that you'll stun your opponent or interrupt their attack. These reactions are determined by many factors including the weapon type, momentum of the strike, location of the strike, etc. It is also possible to kill opponents with one solid blow to the head. Likewise, thrusts and other maneuvers are being implemented.

I highly recommend you play a bit more since it takes a while to understand how things work. It is clear from your post that you don't quite grasp how things function and the combat becomes a lot more enjoyable once things start to click and you have a bit more experience. It is not nearly as random as it might seem at first.
 

Voxavs

Supporter
Situation: I land a hit first, enemy takes damage and his weapon hits me with a loud "BONK", I take no damage. Or when me and the opponent bupm his sword pokes me in the belly, but nope no damage since it's not an attack, if everything is physics based why is this not physics based? Yeah, it's easy to say "you don't understand", but I can see that hard hit that passed, but did no damage bacuse of "technical mumbo-jumbo". Also I know what should happen if you slash a persons head with an axe or hit it with a hammer. He dies, period. Not in the game though.
 

tiny lampe

Insider
Situation: I land a hit first, enemy takes damage and his weapon hits me with a loud "BONK", I take no damage. Or when me and the opponent bupm his sword pokes me in the belly, but nope no damage since it's not an attack, if everything is physics based why is this not physics based? Yeah, it's easy to say "you don't understand", but I can see that hard hit that passed, but did no damage bacuse of "technical mumbo-jumbo". Also I know what should happen if you slash a persons head with an axe or hit it with a hammer. He dies, period. Not in the game though.
Those BONK-sounding hits you mention are caused by the shafts and hilts of the weapon when they hit somebody at very close range. I don't think they currently cause damage but I agree they should.

Yes, no matter how sharp your weapon is, I don't think you can damage your opponent with it unless you are attacking. I agree that this should be addressed.

The devs mentioned that they want both players and NPC to need two lethal hits in order to die. That's why it's possible to hit somebody in the head with a sword or hammer and see him surviving the hit. As Tony mentioned one-hit kills are possible, but they are harder to pull off.
 
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Elaxter

Insider
One hit kills would be nice, but it's also nice that they don't happen. Giving both the NPC and the player an advantage like that is something that makes the game stay a game.
 

Voxavs

Supporter
Those BONK-sounding hits you mention are caused by the shafts and hilts of the weapon when they hit somebody at very close range. I don't think they currently cause damage but I agree they should.

Yes, no matter how sharp your weapon is, I don't think you can damage your opponent with it unless you are attacking. I agree that this should be addressed.

The devs mentioned that they want both players and NPC to need two lethal hits in order to die. That's why it's possible to hit somebody in the head with a sword or hammer and see him surviving the hit. As Tony mentioned one-hit kills are possible, but they are harder to pull off.
Well since you can't "aim to the head in a regular sence, I can't see why not, since they might be some sort of critical hits. I once used a hammer and it slided all the way up the shield right into the oponent's head (on a pretty good speed, otherwhise I wouldn't even noticed) but the game counted that as a block and no damage were taken.
 
Well since you can't "aim to the head in a regular sence, I can't see why not, since they might be some sort of critical hits. I once used a hammer and it slided all the way up the shield right into the oponent's head (on a pretty good speed, otherwhise I wouldn't even noticed) but the game counted that as a block and no damage were taken.
How do you know the game counted it as a block when you cannot see the enemy health? It is possible it does stamina damage not perma damage, hence why no blood if thats what you use to count a hit.
 

Faelivrin

Insider
One hit kills would be nice, but it's also nice that they don't happen. Giving both the NPC and the player an advantage like that is something that makes the game stay a game.
But they do happen on both sides. Not easy to perform, but possible.
 

Voxavs

Supporter
How do you know the game counted it as a block when you cannot see the enemy health? It is possible it does stamina damage not perma damage, hence why no blood if thats what you use to count a hit.
Because when you do damage there's an "Auch" sound.
 

Voxavs

Supporter
Finished the Expert arena and it felt so much easyer then the novice one. Took me 3 attempts and each time I managed to get to the final round, unlike the Novice one which took me 2 days to compleate. Liked the flashy plate armor though. Still kindof weird to kill people with swords when they wear full plate just by slashing them a bunch. I know it only doest yellow bar damage, but still.
 

Murf

Moderator
Finished the Expert arena and it felt so much easyer then the novice one. Took me 3 attempts and each time I managed to get to the final round, unlike the Novice one which took me 2 days to compleate..
Congrats! That's what starts to happen when you start getting used to controls you have never seen before. Feels good don't it? Don't be surprised if you end up having some bad days in the expert arena though. :)
 
One of the great things is it's so unpredictable. You can trip, fall, stagger against the wall as you evade. For me this is what makes the combat great. And if I want to flail and wildly swing until I fall over I can. I can feel the weight of the character. It's great.
 
I've been playing the arena the whole evening yesterday and I really enjoyed the combat, but still there some things that I should point out, that are not really good.

First the good. The combat feels heavy and great in general, how weapons clash and you bump your oponent with your body - amazing feeling. Plus on the videos it's seems like a drunk people brawl, but when you play it yourself it's increadibly satisfying.

Bad. Character movements are unresponsive. Often you can't land a hit cos your char is too clumsy at walking and there's a delay between the button press and the actual move. Also sometimes he moves unpredictable. Collision detection is weird. Often the guy with the sickle on a long stick just puts it on my face and drags it left and right, which is not registred as damage. Often he hits me with it in the eye so strong, that I should insta die or go into coma. Same happens with the oponents when I see a hit, but there's no hit registered. For example I hit the girl with axe and shield with 2h hammer, it slides up her shield very fast, hits her head, no hit registered. Another thing is the first who landed the hit is the cool guy. It's really weird that a succsesfull hit always interupts the oponents hit, and even if it lands it does no damage. Also regarding head hits. There's no excuse for me or oponent not to die or be stunned after reseafing a heavy head hit, especially without any kind of helment. I chop you in the neck with a 2h sword and he's still running look at him. Makes a really bad impression. And the last thing there's not much in terms of controlling your attacks. The game desides from where it wants to swing, and overhead is imposible to trigger. Besides you can't stab people with swords which is kind of silly.


Much of what you describe is real man. This do slide up items, weapons would just catch, limbs would tire. It is stupid that in every game every hit is the same solid smash, it just would not be the case in real life. Have you ever lifted a long sword in real life?
 

Zotis

Member
I agree that one hit kills being harder to pull off than a head shot is good in terms of gameplay. It makes the damage seem balanced, especially since it's permanent death in game.

I definitely felt like the combat was clumsy at first, but I liked that. Real life is clumsy until you master an art. I find that as I get better at combat it's less clumsy and I am able to move my character fluidly and attack with more precision. So I think the combat is great!
 

Satorii

Member
I agree that one hit kills being harder to pull off than a head shot is good in terms of gameplay. It makes the damage seem balanced, especially since it's permanent death in game.

I definitely felt like the combat was clumsy at first, but I liked that. Real life is clumsy until you master an art. I find that as I get better at combat it's less clumsy and I am able to move my character fluidly and attack with more precision. So I think the combat is great!
At one point, after miscalculating my attack, axe guy in the arena expert mode one-hit killed me with a full on 90-degree swing to the head. Mind you, this is a pretty scrawny guy, so I wonder if a bigger, buffer guy (totally discounting that he would be taller and that the swing would have a smaller arc) can survive the same exact hit with a sliver of life left?
 

Zotis

Member
Well a head shot can still be a one hit kill if it's a strong enough blow, and the expert arena opponents usually wind up their attacks fully and swing with a lot of momentum. So yeah, I appreciate that you have to put that extra effort to get a one hit KO.
 
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