Thaumaturgic Collision

[Scarecrow]

I'm not sure this is something that has ever been discussed. I wonder if different thaumatrugic powers can collide with each other, and make a resulting effect by it. Say two thaumaturges of equal power level uses force push towards one another. Will that result in a force "explosion" that pushes everything around it away? Or if one is of a higher power level than the other, will that result in his force push overwhelming the other force push? This could go for other potential thaumaturgic powers as well, which could result in all kinds of cool effect (Flames being pushed away, turning it into a flaming force push?). I think it would be cool if it was like this. I mean, it goes kinda well with how the physics of the game is one if its core gameplay features.

Would be nice to get an official answer to this, but anyways feel free to discuss your own opinions regarding the subject.

 

[Parco]

something like in magica? would be nice if spells could "realistically" interact with each other. the "force-push" would just pass through each other, no matter which one is stronger. a "fire-push" or "wind -push" would end up changing direction with the possibility to turn into a whirlwind. if water were being pushed then into each other then it would just collide and splash where it hit, the stronger the cast is the further away from the caster the splash will end up. the interesting thing would be to collide different elements, if fire and wind hit each other then the fire would be even stronger because of the oxygen, if the wind-push was too weak then the fire-push would overwhelm it and hit the caster with even greater flames, if the power is somewhat equal then it would turn into a whirlwind, if both sides are really strong then were talking about a tornado, not a very long lasting one unless the casters keep "beaming" the spells into it, if the wind is stronger then it will push the flames back and hit the other caster with his own flames.
water and fire would nullify each other and create damp, too much of this would make the area hard to see in for a while.
water and wind would just make raindrops, aka both sides will be "shattered" hitting each other with some raindrops and a mild breeze, the stronger one side is compared to the other the more compact the spell will hit the other caster.
if electric spells are introduced and done realistically then it would be interesting because it would be very strong against both wind, water and flames. flames are plasma so it basically doubles the jump of the electric bolts, water would just lead the electricity straight to the caster and wind would not affect it at all, but both sides will hit each other, only the water would be weakened because the electricity would split some of the water into oxygen and hydrogen. but then again electricity would be very weak against plant/earth spells.

 

[Cooper Holt]

I'm not sure this is something that has ever been discussed. I wonder if different thaumatrugic powers can collide with each other, and make a resulting effect by it. Say two thaumaturges of equal power level uses force push towards one another. Will that result in a force "explosion" that pushes everything around it away? Or if one is of a higher power level than the other, will that result in his force push overwhelming the other force push? This could go for other potential thaumaturgic powers as well, which could result in all kinds of cool effect (Flames being pushed away, turning it into a flaming force push?). I think it would be cool if it was like this. I mean, it goes kinda well with how the physics of the game is one if its core gameplay features.

Would be nice to get an official answer to this, but anyways feel free to discuss your own opinions regarding the subject.

It would depend on what power and what field of thaumaturgy they were using, I assume. If they were using some sort of "force-push"-esque power, then I'd like a sort of "shockwave" to occur.

 

[fluffydino2000]

Quite an interesting idea. Although, I doubt we will see it taken to the extremes you describe parco, as much as I'd like it. I don't think this is because they won't bother but more because of how varied thaumaturgy will be. You could obviously have heat, fire, cold and electricity with the energy branch of thaumaturgy. But in terms of water and earth, I think you'd have to stretch the displacement branch quite a bit to affect those things. Air is obviously factored into displacement and force and force may just be like arcane energy when advanced. Or that might be where the energy branch ends up, who knows. I struggle to see how light would affect these things. Body could potentially encompass plants and I'd say that mind has no physical effects.

At this point I guess we only know a tiny bit about thaumaturgy, how you gain power and lose it. How you gain knowledge. How these things come together to be your abilities and what kinds of abilities you may have. It might be nice in one of the upcoming updates for the topic to be thaumaturgy and how it works with some ideas for effects.

 

[yulback]

flaflames are plasma so it basically doubles the jump of the electric bolts, water would just lead the electricity straight to the caster and wind would not affect it at all, but both sides will hit each other, only the water would be weakened because the electricity would split some of the water into oxygen and hydrogen.

 

[Cooper Holt]

Well let's not get too serious and science-y. It is, after all, a fantasy game.

 

[Komuflage]

Well let's not get too serious and science-y. It is, after all, a fantasy game.

Well it would actually be nice if it was somewhat based on how it works in real life. That way if some1 shots an lightning bolt at you, you can't use water based attacks against it (depends on what kind I guess) Ofc this al depends on if there even will be element based powers.

 

[Rob]

Well let's not get too serious and science-y. It is, after all, a fantasy game.

Sure, there shouldn't be a message that says "water has been weakened due to chemical bonds being broken... free electrons have been emitted - chance of additional radiation damage..."

However, I really like it when things are a bit sciencey and have some real life basis, adding depth and a sense of realism. However unrealistic the final implementation. Remember the first time you put grease on the floor then set it on fire in Dragon Age Origins?

 

[Cooper Holt]

I do, and it was pretty fun.
I do like the science-esque approach a lot, but like Rob said, it shouldn't say "water has been weakened due to chemical bonds being broken... free electrons have been emitted - chance of additional radiation damage"

 

[BrecMadak]

Sure, there shouldn't be a message that says "water has been weakened due to chemical bonds being broken... free electrons have been emitted - chance of additional radiation damage..."

However, I really like it when things are a bit sciencey and have some real life basis, adding depth and a sense of realism. However unrealistic the final implementation. Remember the first time you put grease on the floor then set it on fire in Dragon Age Origins?

How about looking from the other side of the coin, shall we ?
Has any of you ever think about it would work well within SG, if ever some (knowlegde) skills 'could be' implemented akin to UO ?
Let's say for those who favors or studies (somehow - as much as in-game mechanics allow) on these schools (anatomic, scientific, forensic etc..) would get more scientific and evaluative infos when a player examines an object or a being; while other non-studied characters getting a more shallow and simple info and to a less extent. If BM could ever handle this without giving spoilers they would hit two bird with one stone;

• It would increase the replayability to a much higher level
• Interesting yet more satisfying infos player would get; more fun.
• They do not need to be 100% science proven statements, thus they do not need to spent their time researching for only but the only truth behind them.

UO players will remember that skills like these were quite useless and unrewarding to master. I've no doubt if BM consider these to make it alive, it would then make much more sense.
Other game did this all around good was Fallout 2 by letting the player alternative ways to play.

Of corpse what I talk about is not something close to be a priority on the list though, just wanted to share what came to my mind. What you guys think regarding this idea to fit with SG, how it sounds ?

 

[Rob]

Let's say for those who favors or studies (somehow - as much as in-game mechanics allow) on these schools (anatomic, scientific, forensic etc..) would get more scientific and evaluative infos when a player examines an object or a being; while other non-studied characters getting a more shallow and simple info and to a less extent.
...
UO players will remember that skills like these were quite useless and unrewarding to master. I've no doubt if BM consider these to make it alive, it would then make much more sense.

Sounds great. Like it!!!

 

[fluffydino2000]

A very nice idea. I like it. Although, maybe they don't need to be skills, maybe on some kind of special game mode, you can choose a back story, (probably would be for people who have completed the main storyline and just want to play a dynamic RPG) and your back story affects your characters starting skills and knowledge. Obviously, knowledge wouldn't be a number but more a bank of facts that would accumulate and affect descriptions of effects and items and your dialogue (i.e. what your character actually says, how he/she words things etc.).

Oh and by the way, it's "Of course", not "Of corpse"

 

[Komuflage]

Having some "non combat skills" like that would be interesting, also if they include some other, so u got a bit of choice. However, these should be separate from you combat skills (Light/heavy weapon armour etc) since if they're not, choosing non combat skills can often cripple your character once you get to high "levels". (smiting in skyrim)

Other than that, I think it's a great idea.

Oh and by the way, it's "Of course", not "Of corpse"

I think his spelling assist/auto correct screwed him

 

[Rob]

I think there would have to be more point to it than simply providing more dialogue or changing the way the character says things. Increasing knowledge should have a tangible effect on some aspect of gameplay, a bit like increasing your lockpicking skill would allow you to unlock harder locks.

Perhaps having greater knowledge in specific (and or multiple) schools could allow for combination of thaumaturgic powers, as well as having more profound dialogue... having a deeper understanding of the subject matter should allow the character to be smart enough to know how different skills can be combined for optimal effect.

Exactly how knowledge in different fields can be "leveled up" without it just feeling like grinding would have to be thought about carefully. Perhaps there could be guilds (or equivalent) that introduce the character to a given field, or aspect of that field (could be level of mastery), which initiates a quest-like challenge to discover more about that topic. All of the relevant info that provides knowledge on the topic can then just be stumbled across in the game world, e.g. by reading scrolls, talking to people, seeing sights, interacting with the game world, etc.

 

[BrecMadak]

Oh and by the way, it's "Of course", not "Of corpse"

I think his spelling assist/auto correct screwed him

Actually I was surprised that you didn't take it in a way that I write this purposely as this was not the first time

I think there would have to be more point to it than simply providing more dialogue or changing the way the character says things. Increasing knowledge should have a tangible effect on some aspect of gameplay, a bit like increasing your lockpicking skill would allow you to unlock harder locks.

Exactly. These kind of skills in UO was pretty useless due to not having and impact other than RP elements unlikely many other skills. Actually I meant this but I cut it a bit short.

Exactly how knowledge in different fields can be "leveled up" without it just feeling like grinding would have to be thought about carefully.

Very nice point, this shouldn't be grinding since no other thing would end up being so. Maybe some kind of tracing possible quests would allow us tracing the mystery a bit longer and deeper compared to others, so that even if you have finished x quest, there you may still find some useful unsolved info about whatnot which could be from surroundings to environment etc.. And by doing these so, one could start to master knowledge skills step by step even if these skills would take much longer time to master.

By this, there would not be any grinding.
Since it could be advanced by going deeper in a chainlike/pipelined made quests, player would still have fun as he/she gonna see the end of chained/puzzle like quests in a complete clarity way.

Secondly, but not least what came to my mind eventhough this looks a bit harder to implement; what if there would make difference considering the row the player wants to start with x quest; we know there will be multiple ways to finish x quest but I doubt the row that player wants to start with will make things any different in the end. And quests that develops in a chain reaction way would teach us knowledge from a different school according where we start to solve the mystery. Looks a bit complicated but not impossible imo

 

[Rob]

Secondly, but not least what came to my mind eventhough this looks a bit harder to implement; what if there would make difference considering the row the player wants to start with x quest; we know there will be multiple ways to finish x quest but I doubt the row that player wants to start with will make things any different in the end. And quests that develops in a chain reaction way would teach us knowledge from a different school according where we start to solve the mystery. Looks a bit complicated but not impossible imo

So basically you're saying that quests should be solvable by a variety of different paths, rather than taking the traditional linear approach. Quests should be more to do with stumbling across clues, gaining knowledge and solving puzzles, rather than something that feels too predefined (e.g. go to here, then to here, pick up this, take it back to this person, etc.). Sounds good. I wonder how smooth that would be in implementation.

I hope the devs see these posts - it would be really interesting to get their takes on it. I wonder how close all of this is to their current intentions / what they've already implemented...