What kind of stealth system would you like to see?

Greenbrog · Oct 27, 2015

I wouldn't expect bonus damage, taking an attack that doesn't get a chance to be blocked or parried is a huge advantage, you could definitely one shot things. Stealth... lot of talk on it, but the undead don't need light they can see you just fine in pitch dark. Being quieter though... that could be nice. Balancing a stealth mechanic and not have it ultimately be contrived is going to be very hard. But I think being quieter is a good one though, that could literally be a toggle that causes a move penalty or some such, obviously harder in metal. Making it make sense AND not just being "win" is going to take some creativity, and makes me think it cost to benefit may make it relatively unfeasible.

konggary · Oct 27, 2015

In the present state, stealth wouldn't even really matter, considering that most of the zombies don't attack on sight.

Mikodzi · Oct 27, 2015

konggary said:
In the present state, stealth wouldn't even really matter, considering that most of the zombies don't attack on sight.

There is only two types of zombies: one will attack on sight, other will attack only on your aggressive behavior. Moreover, we know that game is mostly skill based - so sneak could not grant you some additional powers. BM should implement some new gameplay mechanics to justify sneak approach or just ignore it completely.

I could imagine that sneak is needed in cases of overwhelming amount of enemies in particular locations, and the only way to pass through is to use cloak and shadows.

Stonery · Jan 1, 2016

Greenbrog said:
I wouldn't expect bonus damage, taking an attack that doesn't get a chance to be blocked or parried is a huge advantage, you could definitely one shot things. Stealth... lot of talk on it, but the undead don't need light they can see you just fine in pitch dark. Being quieter though... that could be nice. Balancing a stealth mechanic and not have it ultimately be contrived is going to be very hard. But I think being quieter is a good one though, that could literally be a toggle that causes a move penalty or some such, obviously harder in metal. Making it make sense AND not just being "win" is going to take some creativity, and makes me think it cost to benefit may make it relatively unfeasible.

I would love to see some kind of sound mechanics. I remember in my first couple hours of the game, whenever I knocked a bunch of items over and caused a lot of racket, I would internally be like "Oh shit, oh shit, oh shit...". That alone caused me a lot of (fun) strife until I knew for sure that the enemies wouldn't react to me fumbling around. Even after I got the hint, I would instinctively panic a bit because of how immersed I become in the game.

Although, I'm not sure how they would make it work well. Combat itself is very loud. Just accidentally scraping my sword against the wall is one of the loudest things I can do. It would be pretty crappy to have all the nearby dungeon inhabitants flock to ambush you, or to have more NPC's within sound range to run and join a 1v1 fight that I'm already struggling with. And I bet that it might have some weird interactions with the NPC's coming to check out other NPC's all the time. Maybe make sound have a short range, or be extremely dampered by surroundings?

konggary · Jan 1, 2016

Stonery said:
I would love to see some kind of sound mechanics. I remember in my first couple hours of the game, whenever I knocked a bunch of items over and caused a lot of racket, I would interally be like "Oh shit, oh shit, oh shit...". That alone caused me a lot of (fun) strife until I knew for sure that the enemies wouldn't react to me fumbling around. Even after I got the hint, I would instinctively panic a bit because of how immersed I become in the game.

Although, I'm not sure how they would make it work well. Combat itself is very loud. Just accidentally scraping my sword against the wall is one of the loudest things I can do. It would be pretty crappy to have all the nearby dungeon inhabitants flock to ambush you, or to have more NPC's within sound range to run and join a 1v1 fight that I'm already struggling with. And I bet that it might have some weird interactions with the NPC's coming to check out other NPC's all the time. Maybe make sound have a short range, or be extremely dampered by surroundings?

After centuries of living with eachother, I would assume the undead ignore most normal sounds. Tables tipping and steel ringing though, that might attract attention. This really depends on this one part of the lore that we still have no idea about: what the hell are the undead?

Snipa299 · Jan 11, 2016

konggary said:
Maybe instead of tapping tab to go to combat mode, you hold it to toggle stealth, and your character crouches and walks a little slower (and thus more quietly). Instead of an "assassination' animation, the stealth would simply allow you to get in the first blow for a distinct advantage. With the advent of pierce weapons, a dagger could be viable this way: it's only useful in a situation where you can get close, for a quick stab to the neck.

Unrelated to the noise, but what if we just replace the overhand power attack with a stabbing animation? It could be able to change depending on where you aim the cursor, like overhand stab if you put the cursor over the head/neck or a thrust if you have it aimed at their core. The damage would likely be based off of thrust or piercing, and the special attack could only be done with a short weapon with thrust/pierce capabilities. (Sorry, no stealth stabbing with your mace) Other wise it'd be a normal power attack animation with the possibility for increased damage since you/your character would have a bit more time to get that one shot placed RIGHT where it'll do the most damage. Maybe there's a book you can find somewhere in the dungeons on anatomy that would unlock that bonus since then you know where the weak spots are on the zombies, assuming of course that the character has no idea about that previously.

konggary · Jan 11, 2016

Snipa299 said:
Unrelated to the noise, but what if we just replace the overhand power attack with a stabbing animation? It could be able to change depending on where you aim the cursor, like overhand stab if you put the cursor over the head/neck or a thrust if you have it aimed at their core. The damage would likely be based off of thrust or piercing, and the special attack could only be done with a short weapon with thrust/pierce capabilities. (Sorry, no stealth stabbing with your mace) Other wise it'd be a normal power attack animation with the possibility for increased damage since you/your character would have a bit more time to get that one shot placed RIGHT where it'll do the most damage. Maybe there's a book you can find somewhere in the dungeons on anatomy that would unlock that bonus since then you know where the weak spots are on the zombies, assuming of course that the character has no idea about that previously.

Thrust attacks are currently in the process of being implemented, regardless of stealth. It goes against the spirit of the game to have a book that just gives a + to damage against an enemy. All the skill/intelligence is coming from the player.

As my knowledge is the character's knowledge, I would figure that the vital parts are the most damaging. The more unprotected the vital spot is, the more lucrative it is to target.

Snipa299 · Jan 11, 2016

Hmm, just adding a +5 damage type of bonus would be against the game's claim to being unique, but if anything it would be nice to see a few things that might at least give an exp bonus towards a certain skill.

Bobob · Jan 11, 2016

konggary said:
Thrust attacks are currently in the process of being implemented

Source?

Mati9319 · Jan 11, 2016

Bobob said:
Source?

http://www.baremettle.com/forums/index.php?threads/whats-next.2970/

Shehriazad · Jan 12, 2016

Disguises (look like the enemy)
Crouching/remaining out of line of sight
Noise.

So basically against humans you should be able to wear gear of their faction...and as long as you are not moving suspiciously or come too close (they might know one another) you should be fine.

The other would be classical sneaking...simply try to not be seen and hide behind objects so they cannot see you.

The last would be being silent..this would validate people that do not want to run around in heavy plate armor...because quite franky...you aren't gonna be very sneaky in full plate + chain underneath plate. But if all you wear is a bunch of cloth...there is nothing stopping you from approaching people from behind and just "ending" them.

konggary · Jan 12, 2016

Shehriazad said:
Disguises (look like the enemy)
Crouching/remaining out of line of sight
Noise.

So basically against humans you should be able to wear gear of their faction...and as long as you are not moving suspiciously or come too close (they might know one another) you should be fine.

The other would be classical sneaking...simply try to not be seen and hide behind objects so they cannot see you.

The last would be being silent..this would validate people that do not want to run around in heavy plate armor...because quite franky...you aren't gonna be very sneaky in full plate + chain underneath plate. But if all you wear is a bunch of cloth...there is nothing stopping you from approaching people from behind and just "ending" them.

Noise/obscured vision stealth is certainly going to be implemented.

Disguises are quite a unique idea, I like it a lot. With what they've described of the SG world so far, it's likely there will be multiple lordships and/or kingdoms about in the world, ripe with potential for mischief

burgzaza · Jan 12, 2016

konggary said:
Disguises are quite a unique idea, I like it a lot.

It is, and that was present on the kickstarter videos already.