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Mimel
Insider
What is the reasoning behind only a third person view? I'm not against it, but I do like to zoom into first person sometimes. It offers a more immersive feeling to gameplay. Viewing the surroundings through your own eyes as it were.
If it is a component of the engine, then I would deal with it. I don't want to lessen the physics aspect just to view it differently.
If it is a component of the engine, then I would deal with it. I don't want to lessen the physics aspect just to view it differently.
Tony
Insider
@Mimel:
Madoc said they're designing a lot of things around the top-down view so until he gives us specific examples I'm not sure why other views wouldn't be viable.
EDIT: I guess it might have to do with how their combat mechanics work (you currently aim with the mouse, which wouldn't really work in first person view... they'd have to make all new animations too - you'd get motion sickness with the physics based combat and being flung around); shadows might also be incorrect; rendering things in first person perspective will also alter how well the game runs on your machine (they'd need to add options to tweak view distance settings, how far away items are rendered so they don't just "pop in" etc.).
Madoc said they're designing a lot of things around the top-down view so until he gives us specific examples I'm not sure why other views wouldn't be viable.
EDIT: I guess it might have to do with how their combat mechanics work (you currently aim with the mouse, which wouldn't really work in first person view... they'd have to make all new animations too - you'd get motion sickness with the physics based combat and being flung around); shadows might also be incorrect; rendering things in first person perspective will also alter how well the game runs on your machine (they'd need to add options to tweak view distance settings, how far away items are rendered so they don't just "pop in" etc.).
Mimel
Insider
Right, that makes perfect sense. I was thinking it would be something like that.
I have no problems with using the third person. I think the year and a half will fly by.
the0thMonkey
Member
I think it was in the "Combat explained" video that it was said that you use the middle mouse button to change viewing angle. I would like to see an option to have the camera angle fixed so that it is right behind you. So, still isometric but with more of a 3rd person feel.
Do you think that is worth implementing?
Do you think that is worth implementing?
Tony
Insider
Scrolling your mouse wheel will zoom closer/farther away. Holding down the middle mouse button will rotate your camera left/right. I don't think there is any option to change the angle of the camera. I know Madoc goes into a free roam camera view in the first video they released but if they're designing everything to function properly with a top-down view then I don't think they'd give us an option that would screw up certain mechanics. However, until one of the devs verifies this as a fact then this is only an educated guess
Madoc
Project Lead
What you say Tony is pretty much spot on. Games tend to have very mechanical control systems and character movements, a first person view would be confusing and feel unresponsive. And yes, rendering stuff for a first person or isometric view are very different in terms of requirements and methods.
Probably the most important thing though is that the mouse is used to control your character, not the camera. The entire fluidity and fine grained control in the combat would be lost with another view. Isometric views also give you a much clearer idea of what's going on and a good tactical overview. This also goes for viewing and interacting with your environment.
While first person views might be considered more immersive ultimately it's like being half deaf and looking at the world through a tiny shaking window (monitor, no peripheral vision) with one eye (no depth perception), turning around frantically trying to get a sense for your surroundings. Works great for some forms of gameplay but...
Probably the most important thing though is that the mouse is used to control your character, not the camera. The entire fluidity and fine grained control in the combat would be lost with another view. Isometric views also give you a much clearer idea of what's going on and a good tactical overview. This also goes for viewing and interacting with your environment.
While first person views might be considered more immersive ultimately it's like being half deaf and looking at the world through a tiny shaking window (monitor, no peripheral vision) with one eye (no depth perception), turning around frantically trying to get a sense for your surroundings. Works great for some forms of gameplay but...
Caiphas Cain
Member
Do you intend to make the game Xbox controller compatible?
Also, third person does have disadvantages too. I would say that first person is certainly more responsive and immersive. Also, it's less exploitable. In reality, peripheral vision isn't going to let you know that someone is coming behind you. With the current viewing angle, you can see over walls, behind buildings, and around corners, which is a serious step back from the reality that Sui Generis is trying to achieve. Additionally, aiming a bow in third person sucks. It really does. The best you could do is center the camera angle directly over the shoulder and add crosshairs; yet another thing that messes up immersion.
The easiest fix for these problems seems to be to add a first person viewpoint. Is the lack of peripheral vision so terrible that we need the current omniscient view?
Also, third person does have disadvantages too. I would say that first person is certainly more responsive and immersive. Also, it's less exploitable. In reality, peripheral vision isn't going to let you know that someone is coming behind you. With the current viewing angle, you can see over walls, behind buildings, and around corners, which is a serious step back from the reality that Sui Generis is trying to achieve. Additionally, aiming a bow in third person sucks. It really does. The best you could do is center the camera angle directly over the shoulder and add crosshairs; yet another thing that messes up immersion.
The easiest fix for these problems seems to be to add a first person viewpoint. Is the lack of peripheral vision so terrible that we need the current omniscient view?
Madoc
Project Lead
Peripheral vision doesn't let you see behind you but in the real world you have good spatial awareness and a whole bunch of acute senses, even with your eyes closed you can have decent idea of your surroundings and know where you're facing, which way is up etc. You also have a neck and eyes that can turn in their sockets, not a camera strapped to your chest. Real hearing is also incredibly good at positioning things in space.
I like some first person shooters and first person views are obviously ideal for that but for RPGs where you do so much more than shoot I just find it frustrating. I also only find first person views immersive when looking at distant things, I don't find them at all realistic when viewing your immediate surroundings.
Either way this isn't about realism, it's about the gameplay experience. As long as you're using a crosshair I don't see a big difference for archery and for everything else I find first person views very clumsy.
There are always tradeoffs but aside from all of the above I think that if you see how characters move in Sui Generis it should be pretty obvious that a first person view would be frustrating to use for anything. An over the shoulder view would already be a better choice but again the control system wouldn't work because you wouldn't have a cursor, the mouse would control the camera instead.
I like some first person shooters and first person views are obviously ideal for that but for RPGs where you do so much more than shoot I just find it frustrating. I also only find first person views immersive when looking at distant things, I don't find them at all realistic when viewing your immediate surroundings.
Either way this isn't about realism, it's about the gameplay experience. As long as you're using a crosshair I don't see a big difference for archery and for everything else I find first person views very clumsy.
There are always tradeoffs but aside from all of the above I think that if you see how characters move in Sui Generis it should be pretty obvious that a first person view would be frustrating to use for anything. An over the shoulder view would already be a better choice but again the control system wouldn't work because you wouldn't have a cursor, the mouse would control the camera instead.
Caiphas Cain
Member
I don't completely agree with your reasons, but thank you for taking the time to respond thoroughly. Some games are definitely suited for first person views, and others not so much. Having not played the game of course, I'll just have to defer to your experience.
