Congrats on Latest Patch, Questions on Weapon Use and Map

[Gozer]

When it comes down to game design issues like permadeath and maps, I've decided to defer to the intent of the developers. Especially since Exanima is so different.

Personally, I hate pressing "m" and getting a map overlay. I also hate being lost in dangerous places.

Eventually I used hardcopies of the maps generated from this community. Thanks andraip.

Once I had maps in hand, I could continue my investigation and focus on the fights.

I liked not having a map in-game, but I expect SG will be different.



BTW best map I seen in a game lately: Kingdom Come: Deliverance.
That map looks like fine artwork from the time period.

 

[nekowaiidesu]

i love to see an advanced combat tutorial. in game or otherwise. i can't say i've searched much recently, but in the past, the only tutorials i found were explaining the basic bindings and concept - id really like to see some people teach their most complicated combos and attacks. i've figured out one or two moves that are reliably devastating; one is the top-down with a crouch, the other is a kinda left step + crouch and charge a LtR, stand and dash forward-right with the swing and follow through with cursor and spacebar. gotta get the right timing and positioning, but i find this often lands a crazy powerful blow to the side or even back of their head.. you can one-shot inept challengers pretty easily with a 2h sword like this or even knock armoured foes over. only works with metal bar and similar 2h weapons.
would love to see more complex but reliably good combos or ways to augment attacks pulled off by the exanima combat gurus

as for maps i'd really like to see them in a semi realistic way. in game maps, or fragments of maps, varying from scribbled lines to detailed floorplans if it fits the scene. there could still be large portions of the game which are unmapped but i feel like increasing the difficulty by making newbies run the same empty corridor and tripping every 20 meters is a bit silly... there could at least be more visible signage outside some rooms or written directions that can be picked up to give you better sense of direction ... the fun of being lost and falling over chairs wears out pretty quickly.

 

[SyllaBear]

No. I am not sure if my comments are invisible or what. You dont need a map, just leave stuff on the floor and you wont, believe me, you wont get lost. Just to give you an example: i use shirts as sign that ive been in a room with chests; boots an aisle, long boots long aisle; jars for empty rooms (not doing it anymore). You can use them as you please.

Levels are not big and they are suposed to be like a maze, THAT makes the game interesting. You quit that and the little stuff we have goes to heck. I even requested map morph but that would be a lot of work... you could play a lot of times and not seeing the same thing over and over. If you dont enjoy exploring then just play arena? You wont get lost there. Oh wait, the keys and movement still too dificult for newbies.

I am with you with the tutorial stuff. There are a few things that ive learn watching videos, no way i could learn them just playing (i think).

 

[Orlacktherof]

No. I am not sure if my comments are invisible or what. You dont need a map, just leave stuff on the floor and you wont, believe me, you wont get lost. Just to give you an example: i use shirts as sign that ive been in a room with chests; boots an aisle, long boots long aisle; jars for empty rooms (not doing it anymore). You can use them as you please.

Levels are not big and they are suposed to be like a maze, THAT makes the game interesting. You quit that and the little stuff we have goes to heck. I even requested map morph but that would be a lot of work... you could play a lot of times and not seeing the same thing over and over. If you dont enjoy exploring then just play arena? You wont get lost there. Oh wait, the keys and movement still too dificult for newbies.

I am with you with the tutorial stuff. There are a few things that ive learn watching videos, no way i could learn them just playing (i think).

Does it mean that there can't be a map?
There is no quote or rule explicitly saying "No Maps"

 

[Elaxter]

Toxicity

Quit being such an elitist. If someone wants a map, they should have one. You think that he wants a "show everything" kind of map, when he probably just wants a map that takes real world skill to read. Do you think maps didn't exist in medieval days or something?

 

[SyllaBear]

Thats something i dont know. But if you want to modify the entire game for yourself, i dont see why not.

Its me or the forums are really slow?

ps: and if there is no map in the whole game, but you still need the advantage of knowing where to go and you search it and use it... that would be called cheating.

 

[Orlacktherof]

Thats something i dont know. But if you want to modify the entire game for yourself, i dont see why not.

Its me or the forums are really slow?

ps: and if there is no map in the whole game, but you still need the advantage of knowing where to go and you search it and use it... that would be called cheating.

Forums are always slow(er)
"Cheating"
By your standards sure, but not everyone is as hardcore as you'd like everything to be.

 

[SyllaBear]

Not my standarts, you are using something you are not suposed to. You are using an inexistent tool in exanima to have a clear advantage that you are not suposed to have.

Another example would be maphack in diablo 2, you get through levels faster by using it because "its not funny to search your objective for hours" (well, it was used to farm anyways).
The good thing is that you dont harm no one by doing it in exanima, so there you go with your maps.

And no, forums never been this laggy.

 

[Orlacktherof]

And no, forums never been this laggy.

wot?

 

[nekowaiidesu]

As I said large portions of the game could remain unmapped. Maps could vary from scribbled lines with no scale, to an architects plan, or even just a note on a dead guy saying "report to X in the west-wing" or even a sign that says "armoury" outside the armoury or whatever.. Of course we're not talking about mini-maps on the hud or real-time map markers and that crap..

Getting lost and exploring is definitely part of the fun, but there is a limit to how 'lost' you want (new) players to feel. There are game design techniques to give the character some kinda bearings and direction organically. Let's say take a written note and a sign for example: the sign basically substitutes having to drop shoes at the door - it also gives the room a canon name and meaning, which adds to the lore / immersion. Let's say we found a note on a corpse that says "you are to go to meet Y in his office North of the infirmary": you only know where the office is in relation to the infirmary, but where is that? You wouldn't know until you found it but now you at least have some objective and idea. Maybe the passage to the office is blocked off, or the door to the infirmary is locked, or whatever - there can still be 'hardcore' challenges that need to be explored or solved without the aid of directions / maps, but just having those tid-bits every once in a while gives your brain a sense of objective or whatever.
The game already does this kinda subtle stuff. For example the first key you find is barely visible from across the room, but your ee is drawn to the dead man at the table and the key is found pretty easily when you investigate, or a big spoopy door is clearly important, because it's the map-transition, etc... Sometimes the corridors just feel really bland and literally depressing to get lost in that I do quit and play arena or Just Cause or something to feel better lol. This is what I mean by the game giving you direction while still feeling 'organic' and playing on your brain instead of just feeding you map-markers and tracked-quests

 

[SyllaBear]

Levels are not big to need a map. Architects just take the "maps" outside with them.
Dude, i have memory problems and i already remember the 4 levels... so if you still need a map after playing or crossing x room a many times in a testing game, then the problem is other. You even have a compass... what else you really need? a zombie guide? Nah, please.

You don't get lost because everything is pretty untuitive. The only times i get lost is in the little maze in the first lvl (i still get lost, but less time ;p ). Even the first time i didnt have much troubles going through it and solve everything, because its already intuitive. Devs did a great job making them and i hope the next levels have more complex ones.

ps: and please, stop naming noobs in your arguments. Noobs will complain about everything. Levels too hard, zombies too hard, controls too hard, camera too hard, females nipples too hard, finding clothes too hard, reading scrolls too hard etc etc. There is no point naming noobs.

 

[Gugi]

No. I am not sure if my comments are invisible or what. You dont need a map, just leave stuff on the floor and you wont, believe me, you wont get lost.

We can all use this suggestion in Sui Generis' huge open world, there will be a breadcrumb merchant, 1000 breadcrumbs for 1 silver. We can all fill our inventory with breadcrumbs and knitting balls of different colors. There will be paint too and bunch of planks and tools left around so we can even make crude signs with them, and spend time running around leaving marks and dropping signs in front of everything. It will be a great cartography rpg, which is all that was expected from this game to begin with.

I am inclined to agree with SyllaBear, the game is definitely not hardcore enough so here are some more suggestions:

- How come we put on a plate armor all by ourselves instantly, we should spend three weeks training a captured zombie to lace our armor, it should take about 20 minutes to change our armor without a zombie squire, 10 minutes with the squire.

- How come we survive without eating or drinking, we absolutely need at least 3 meals a day to maintain all that fighting and stress, cooking of course should not be like putting a bread in a pot and voila "food". That is ridiculous and unrealistic, one should wait for about 30 minutes for the food to be ready.

- Seeing a creature should reduce our stamina to half immediately, how come our character handles all that stress, after all we are not a seasoned warrior, if we see two creatures it should be instant blackout. This condition will improve overtime of course.

- We need to find an oxygen tubes or magical variants of the sort, we are walking around in an enclosed dungeon with a live torch people! I am absolutely certain there will not be enough oxygen around in a short amount of time.

- Besides, one of the issues that bothers me is that how come we do not die from a single axe wound, especially early in the game, if you are hacked with an axe with no armor it should be game over, period.

Long story short, frustrating is not hard. Why don't you go and play "cat-mario", look it up online. According to your criteria it is one of the most hardcore, hardest ever game ever made. Seriously try it, it is full of frustration.

 

[Gustav]

If I may say, I think adding a map will ruin the immersion and also part of the fun because the game is about finding the way out of the dungeon (map = big spoiler and miss the point).
With that said, it arises me a question because people bothers him so much having to make their maps? after all is not a hardcore feature (anyone could do his own map).

It is perhaps the fact of having to have pen and paper handy? (I had little space on my desk and it was a bit annoying), ALT-TAB for paint or similar is a bit annoying to and totally kill the immersion.
perhaps we are too lazy to this? (We are used to the games take us by the hand).
undersides to add maps, Would not it be better to add a feature Allows you to create your shitty map in the game? like the journal allow you to write your researches.

I have plans to open a topic to try to find out why so much troublewith having to create your own map.
and what developers think about the origin of this discontent? someone knows?


PS: sorry for my poor Inglés.
someone knows?

 

[ChavaiotH]

Ha, how modern. Draw the map old way. Pen and paper.
There is another easy way --> remember ))

 

[Orlacktherof]

We can all damn well remember, thing is, some people are just going to get lost and keep getting lost...

 

[NachoDawg]

the earlier Thief games did some cool maps. Thief is about this master thief that goes into mansions and shit to steal valuables, and all his maps look like something he paid the cook at the targeted mansion to scribble down for him

I genuinely don't see the problem in having "realistic" maps. They can be as detailed or not detailed as the gameplay want to allow. Having a shitty incomplete map could be a part of a bigger puzzle, or something you use to get clues about where the story advances. I see little inherently good about -always- having to explore and hope you got to a place you wanted to be. Don't you guys think that most one-man dungeon spelunking operations would want to be as prepared as possible before going into deep, claustrophobic, demon infested dungeons?

 

[ChavaiotH]

Maps for dungeons? sounds unrealistic for me. a handwritten map of a city or terrain, yeah ok, but not a dungeon.

 

[Orlacktherof]

Maps for dungeons? sounds unrealistic for me. a handwritten map of a city or terrain, yeah ok, but not a dungeon.

a handwritten map of a city or terrain, yeah ok, but not a dungeon.

a handwritten map of a city or terrain, yeah ok, but not a dungeon.

city

CITY

 

[NachoDawg]

Maps for dungeons? sounds unrealistic for me. a handwritten map of a city or terrain, yeah ok, but not a dungeon.

Explain how dungeon cartography is unrealistic

 

[Orlacktherof]

Explain how dungeon cartography is unrealistic

*Insert random shit about scale, no measuring tapes and other shitpost worthy shit*