Graphics & Visuals

[Cooper Holt]

One flaw I found with most of the screenshots (especially the picture of the weapons on the ground) is that the objects and the floor almost look like they're on the same layer. The lighting is dynamic and great, but something about it just doesn't seem right.

-Cooper Holt (Crouton)

 

[Tony]

I believe it's a good thing to give constructive criticism (some issues the devs might be aware of and others they may not). I just looked at the screenshot you mentioned and the weapons seem to be on a different layer but they're floating slightly off of the ground. Many games tend to have an issue where objects can't actually touch each other. This is why in many games the weapons simply float on the characters side/back instead of being in an actual sheath or holster. But I'd also like to point out that the game is still in a pre-alpha state and most all things (including visuals) will be improved.

 

[Madoc]

The lack of depth is probably because it's a cropped screenshot from a camera intended for isometric views, there's very little perspective and scene depth so it looks flat.

The floating effect is mostly due to shadow detail and biasing that is again optimised for a distant viewpoint rather than such close viewing. This is often called "peter panning" and it's quite a big problem with dynamic shadow rendering which is why so many games show this effect. Shadows are essential to perceiving the relative position of objects.

 

[hredthel]

The lack of depth is probably because it's a cropped screenshot from a camera intended for isometric views, there's very little perspective and scene depth so it looks flat.

The floating effect is mostly due to shadow detail and biasing that is again optimised for a distant viewpoint rather than such close viewing. This is often called "peter panning" and it's quite a big problem with dynamic shadow rendering which is why so many games show this effect. Shadows are essential to perceiving the relative position of objects.

I think Tony was talking about the collision, which is what I thought (I'm usually wrong though). It does look as if the objects are floating a few inches above the floor. I didn't really notice anything weird about the camera being Isometric, I never can tell unless I see movement in that view.

Assuming that you are not going to be offended to much by criticism (since it's obvious we have high respects!):
I notice that the textures on the weapon hafts have obvious tiling. The diameter of the weapon hilts also look vastly different between each weapon (though I understand longer hafted weapons needing extra thickness than one handed weapons); it does seem a bit odd that one mace would be twice the size as another yet have a one-hand grip.

A question:
Do the shadows not optimize themselves as the camera gets closer and closer? (perhaps a good example is the function of direct draw maps or mipmaps) Frankly I understand little of shadow rendering.

 

[Madoc]

The collisions won't be pixel perfect but this is not usually very noticeable. Again, you're not supposed to see anything that close up. The "peter panning" effect shifts the shadows so the objects look like they don't connect with the ground but like they are floating above it. If we were really going to show something that close we'd increase shadow detail and improve other things. This was a last minute screenshot.

Some shadow mapping can be focused on the view but that's an omnidirectional light, the projection is not view dependent so the quality doesn't improve when you zoom in. Other light types do this but we're also careful to not produce the shimmering effects you often get from dynamic projections.

It's not an isometric camera as such, just a camera used in an isometric view with a low field of view which produces a somewhat flat looking image due to the lack of perspective.

Many of those weapons are very hastily put together placeholders for the sake of variety. Please don't examine them in detail!

Have to be careful what we show you lot! You're going to over examine everything! No more screenshots.

 

[Cooper Holt]

We didn't mean to offend anyone! We love the screenshots! Keep 'em coming, please.
We have very, VERY high respect for you, Kieran, and all the other devs as well. We now understand why things look as they do, so thank you for clearing it up.

 

[sunburnedpenguin]

Have to be careful what we show you lot! You're going to over examine everything! No more screenshots.

While we really do appreciate the visual beauty of the game, please do focus more on lore for future updates! Give us some juicy details we can sink our teeth into. Religion (will this factor into the thaumaturgical powers?), cultural variety (many races? different languages?), terrestrial scope (will we be traveling across seas, continents?), and so forth.

Again on a combat note, will climbing trees and altitude factor into ranged combat?

 

[MrIdontKnow]

Have to be careful what we show you lot! You're going to over examine everything! No more screenshots.

NOOOO! Please can I have some more sir?

 

[Psychomorph]

Have to be careful what we show you lot! You're going to over examine everything! No more screenshots.

Do not punish many for the shortcomings of a few, please.

I have been enjoying the screenshots and content you have been posting so far, even though I had no doubt that a lot of it were placeholders or work in progress. I've been posting the screenhsots and the updates in the threads in other forums and it was generally well received and that is what counts I think, to give people to see something and to talk about something. A mere "bump" of a thread has by far not the same effect.
So, I'd vote for more screenshots, if possible.

 

[hredthel]

The collisions won't be pixel perfect but this is not usually very noticeable. Again, you're not supposed to see anything that close up. The "peter panning" effect shifts the shadows so the objects look like they don't connect with the ground but like they are floating above it. If we were really going to show something that close we'd increase shadow detail and improve other things. This was a last minute screenshot.

Some shadow mapping can be focused on the view but that's an omnidirectional light, the projection is not view dependent so the quality doesn't improve when you zoom in. Other light types do this but we're also careful to not produce the shimmering effects you often get from dynamic projections.

It's not an isometric camera as such, just a camera used in an isometric view with a low field of view which produces a somewhat flat looking image due to the lack of perspective.

Many of those weapons are very hastily put together placeholders for the sake of variety. Please don't examine them in detail!

Have to be careful what we show you lot! You're going to over examine everything! No more screenshots.

Laughs, Sorry Madoc, I'm never afraid of critique ingoing or outgoing, I'm actually quite remorseful when it offends people. If you stop those awesome screencaps, I think we'd all die of hunger while refreshing our browsers!

And thank you very much for the reply. Seriously. I've bounced a few questions off you, Keiran, Agnes, and Bethain, and you've all been very cool and prompt with responses which is awesome.
I like that you aren't intending on the shimmering effect for small shadows: mayhap its just those of us with poor eyesight, but it always seems so hard to focus clearly from an Iso view.

Do not punish many for the shortcomings of a few, please.

Laughs again, handkerchief mate?

 

[Madoc]

Umm, I wasn't in the slightest bit offended btw. Just explaining stuff. And the last bit was a joke of course. That said it's a great excuse to stop making screenshots. Hmm...

 

[Rob]

It's a great thing to justify things in the context of the current game, i.e. isometric camera, etc.
At the same time, it's a great thing to identify potential flaws that would be experienced when transferred to other environments. For example, when, after the era of Sui Generis, you attempt to market your engine, it may be relevant to attempt to iron out such issues!

 

[Madoc]

These things are really just parameters you can tweak, they're not inherent in the engine. The screenshot was taken in a hurry and we didn't bother to change camera and shadow settings for it. To some extent such flaws are inevitable, tweaking parameters to minimise them is always necessary. Mind you most AAA games I've seen don't seem to put much effort into hiding artefacts at all and marketing material is... well, marketing material.

 

[Rob]

These things are really just parameters you can tweak, they're not inherent in the engine. The screenshot was taken in a hurry and we didn't bother to change camera and shadow settings for it. To some extent such flaws are inevitable, tweaking parameters to minimise them is always necessary. Mind you most AAA games I've seen don't seem to put much effort into hiding artefacts at all and marketing material is... well, marketing material.

Sounds good to me. I suppose you'd have to invest some time to figure out what parameter values are appropriate in different scenarios... and I suppose that's not on your priority list! All sounds good.

 

[Cooper Holt]

I created this thread.