Message in "Plot"?

[Wakko]

That's totally core to our philosophy and part of what all the dynamic story stuff supports. No unkillable NPCs, no respawning NPCs, nothing like that. It's much more than just annoying, it very much hurts immersion and the whole idea that what you do matters.

I wrote this in another thread, but the OP wanted me to go to this one instead so here I am

I can understand that the exact same NPC would rewpawn if you kill him. But what I hate in most RPG's is that if you kill someone that lives in a house, that house will be empty forever. Same goes if you steal something or rob a store/house, they never add stuff to the shelf again.

So if you like playing a sneaky character like me, that is a huge immersion breaker. If I rob a house, strip it completely clean. One would think that after a few weeks the house owner would have new stuff in the house. But in must RPG's that is not the case. Maybe he would have a better lock too, or got a dog or something.

Same if you assassin someone in a house, I'd think that after some time, a new character would move in to that house instead of having the house empty for the rest of the game, which makes the world feel very lifeless.

I dont want the same character to respawn of course, but if new NPCs would "enter the world", maybe from a far distant land, like travelers or immigrants or something from time to time or try and get new stuff after they've been robbed would be nice. I dont expect them to have mass riches of course, but one would think they'd have found something on their own adventures, or bought something from a local shop. Hell maybe even got stuff from their friends because they just got robbed.

 

[Algea]

Wakko, I really like your ideas. I'm curious if it's possible to randomly place new stuff instead of what you've stolen. That'd be innovative and interesting, especially if this replacement stuff isn't going to appear all at once but rather over time.

 

[Wakko]

Wakko, I really like your ideas. I'm curious if it's possible to randomly place new stuff instead of what you've stolen. That'd be innovative and interesting, especially if this replacement stuff isn't going to appear all at once but rather over time.

Well, to give a example of what I have in mind.

Something I liked in the elder scrolls game, is that if you gave a NPC an item (like in skyrim, dropping an item on the ground and someone comes up and ask if he can take it), or sold an item to a shop keeper, he might actually equip it (remember this from Morrowind, sold a hat to someone and he equipped it). So, in Sui Generis, if charcters have a decent AI, which it appears the devs want them to have. Then everyone will go on with their daily life and so on.

So if you would rob say... a hunter. Instead of, as you said "randomly place new things" around in his house, he would gradually place like pelts, bows, arrows, weapons and other hunter stuff around just like anyone else would. They put a tool away when they dont work with it. Now if he gets robbed, his house is stripped from all his stuff. Well, now he basically have to start from scratch, maybe he just have a primitive dagger now. Of course he is pissed about the fact that he was robbed, but its nothing he can do anything about really. So he slowly gets new stuff again, maybe some pelts and so on as he continues to struggle hunting with his small dagger. Maybe then, we can play really sneaky and act friendly towards this poor hunter we just robbed, and sell him a bow and some arrows, which he then will equip and start using.

So its not like items just spawn in his house, like magic. But that the NPC actually work for the items he has. Maybe find something when he is out on a adventure, or trading, or crafting himself.

I understand that this is really ambitious, and I dont know if its even possible. But I just wanted to give a example of what I mean

 

[Algea]

That's really great, that hunter example you gave! I was thinking about your usual city dweller when I wrote my previous message, so the stuff you've stolen should be pretty generic and it's no wonder that it might be replaced with the same generic things. Your hunter example is more intricate and if I saw this in any game I'd be sold that instant. <3

 

[Tony Dye]

One reason houses in games remain empty after you loot them is that players will just grind houses for loot and end up unbalancing the game. Addressing that would be an important part of respawning contents in lootable housing, if we decided to to it.

 

[Algea]

One reason houses in games remain empty after you loot them is that players will just grind houses for loot and end up unbalancing the game. Addressing that would be an important part of respawning contents in lootable housing, if we decided to to it.

While it's a logical assumption (and it's so very true) why not let people decide if they want to abuse the game or not? Or you can set the lowest possible price for respawning items so it'd be a true grindfest trying to make money selling them.

EDIT: sorry, I should have noticed that you were talking about games in general. Though the second part of my message still stands true.

 

[Siyeh]

One reason houses in games remain empty after you loot them is that players will just grind houses for loot and end up unbalancing the game. Addressing that would be an important part of respawning contents in lootable housing, if we decided to to it.

This seems only to be true if the owner of the house is oblivious to the fact that they've been robbed. If they upgraded the locks, got a dog, or stayed up all night with a crossbow pointed at the door, grinding houses for cash would be much more difficult!

 

[SergeDavid]

This seems only to be true if the owner of the house is oblivious to the fact that they've been robbed. If they upgraded the locks, got a dog, or stayed up all night with a crossbow pointed at the door, grinding houses for cash would be much more difficult!

which I love the idea of them having a cross bow on their lap waiting for someone to walk through the door.

Yeah someone's been sneaking into my house and thieving things, but I've got something for him tonight. He'll get the same treatmen as that young man did when I caught my daughter sneaked out of the house to have a midnight stroll with the butchers son. I'll tell you what though, that boy never ran so fast as he did that night in his life.

 

[BrecMadak]

Got to dig the children concept.. I'd like to know why team thinks not to implement children into SG ? Do they hesitate if ever x player base would be demanding abusable acts in any way, or what ?

You can exclude any abuse form regarding children and still include them into SG, there could be really good quests that only could be accomplished by them f.e, just think.

Fallout had included them, and did quite well along with side quests, besides pickpocketing and such. Why not for SG ?

 

[the0thMonkey]

Because the unkillable children in Skyrim were terrible. If its going to be included in the game, it should be realistic. The easiest way to avoid unrealistic children is to not implement them.

 

[walltar]

Because the unkillable children in Skyrim were terrible. If its going to be included in the game, it should be realistic. The easiest way to avoid unrealistic children is to not implement them.

Prety much this ... rather have no children at all than unkillable childrem which laugh at you when you are murdering their parents.

 

[SergeDavid]

Got to dig the children concept.. I'd like to know why team thinks not to implement children into SG ? Do they hesitate if ever x player base would be demanding abusable acts in any way, or what ?

You can exclude any abuse form regarding children and still include them into SG, there could be really good quests that only could be accomplished by them f.e, just think.

Fallout had included them, and did quite well along with side quests, besides pickpocketing and such. Why not for SG ?

 

[Tony Dye]

The decision not to include children was made before I joined the Team, but I agree with it for their reasons as well as for my own. I don't like to write those sorts of quests, the same tone and dramatic feel can be done successfully in other ways without all the extra baggage, and removing them neatly avoids all sorts of thorny problems that might negatively impact the game far more than it does positively.

I suspect no one will avoid Sui Generis because demonic child abuse isn't included. It's a cheap and lazy way to tug at the heartstrings of a player and inject tension into an otherwise forgettable effort. I'm glad I didn't have to argue against including them, and quite happy not to be writing kids into any plotline.

I'll hook you guys in less blatantly manipulative ways.

 

[Tony]

I'll hook you guys in less blatantly manipulative ways.

Don't fall for it, folks...

 

[The Hedge Knight]

One reason houses in games remain empty after you loot them is that players will just grind houses for loot and end up unbalancing the game. Addressing that would be an important part of respawning contents in lootable housing, if we decided to to it.

Could always make a real economy, so if you sell shit loads of copper plates in a week the price for copper drops like a rock.

 

[the0thMonkey]

One reason houses in games remain empty after you loot them is that players will just grind houses for loot and end up unbalancing the game. Addressing that would be an important part of respawning contents in lootable housing, if we decided to to it.

Respawn the contents in a realistic timeframe, so that the amount of time needed to actually replace items is taken into account.

 

[Siyeh]

Respawn the contents in a realistic timeframe, so that the amount of time needed to actually replace items is taken into account.

As long as there isn't an easily abused wait mechanism...

 

[TheScythian]

As long as there isn't an easily abused wait mechanism...

I don't think there's going to be a wait mechanism, the idea is for everything to happen real-time as much as possible (although I might be wrong).

 

[Nodes]

Our discussions on this topic have always ended in "no children". Consider also that we intend to have a believable reputation system (someone must witness or discover what you did and also recognise you for plausible reasons). It's sad to have no children but we also don't want to make a game where you can abuse them.

But what if, for example, you use a bow, and just as a poor innocent townsman runs in front of you, too.
The townsman dies! Oh noes, but will the whole village absolutely hate you like in the TES games where if you accidentally kill an NPC, everyone hates you, and your a murderer.
Or, will some with certain temperaments see it as the accident it was(Or was it?) and others, like the family and close friends hate you, for good reason. I understand that they have to see you do it.(Or will they draw conclusions from what they see?)

Also, sorry if this is what you meant by "plausible reasons" and i just made you read all of that.

 

[Venom]

But what if, for example, you use a bow, and just as a poor innocent townsman runs in front of you, too.
The townsman dies! Oh noes, but will the whole village absolutely hate you like in the TES games where if you accidentally kill an NPC, everyone hates you, and your a murderer.
Or, will some with certain temperaments see it as the accident it was(Or was it?) and others, like the family and close friends hate you, for good reason. I understand that they have to see you do it.(Or will they draw conclusions from what they see?)

Also, sorry if this is what you meant by "plausible reasons" and i just made you read all of that.

Hell.... if you accidentally kill someone in our real life society your are still considered a murderer to some extent. Whatever you did to cause the accident, you weren't supposed to be doing it there (says the usual court ruling). Murder is not simply forgiven because it was accidental. People would chase you out of town for killing one of their townsfolk or worse! They'd probably kill you themselves in that time! Remember that this setting encompasses small towns and villages, in other words, very close groups of people that don't move from where they live and practically know each other like if the street market was an open Facebook page.