Kickstarter update #6: Combat Explained, Mostly

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Kieran, Nov 15, 2012.

  1. Kieran

    Kieran Developer

    Messages:
    65
    So, another much awaited update. We're sorry about the delay, we were well under way and then we had some hardware and other problems.

    A lot of people have been asking questions about how the combat controls work, whether we can handle multiple characters and expressing concerns about the quality of the animations. Hopefully this update will give you some answers.

    For this video we also put together a whole new environment type, a wasteland. It still needs a lot of work but we wanted to demonstrate how quickly we can produce different environments using our systems.

    [​IMG]
    Click here for full size Image
    [​IMG]
    Click here for full size Image

    Madoc has coded some new AI and behaviours so we now have combat with multiple participants and a character fighting alongside the player. We've finally killed that ogre for you too!

    We've explained the controls in the video. As you will see, player skill is paramount but the controls are very simple. We can't convey it with a video but it really is a lot of fun and hugely addictive. The very dynamic feel of the controls and the unpredictable nature of the physics and characters makes for some extremely engaging gameplay. You'll be giggling like an excited 5 year old every time you play. We've played it a lot and we still do!

    ABOUT CHARACTER ANIMATIONS
    The inputs for our animations are hand crafted. The animations currently in the game were made by Madoc while he designed the system and tools behind them. Madoc is not an animator, nor a swordsman and he had plenty to do besides making animations! Hiring a professional animator is at the top of our list of priorities and we are already taking some under consideration. The dynamic behaviours and procedural elements of animations are also something we hope to improve significantly so that the characters appear more reactive and sure footed.
    In the first part of the video Kieran demonstrates how the controls work. Most of the weapons in our videos are supposed to be heavy, in the first part of this video we decreased the mass of the weapons, sped up the animations and removed some of the worst wobble from them. The animations are still amateurish but hopefully you can see that the worst problems come from the quality of the animations.

     
    Rob, Blackstaff, Humblerbee and 3 others like this.
  2. Xumbik

    Xumbik Insider

    Messages:
    38
    Wow... Just wow.

    The foundation you're building seems awesome, and I can't wait for it to grow.

    Keeping every finger crossed that your Kickstarter will succeed! You deserve the boost.
     
    Cooper Holt and Humblerbee like this.
  3. Nightrise

    Nightrise Member

    Messages:
    14
    Great job with the update guys, and thanks for all your hard work Kieran in putting together this video! Keep it coming ;).

    Edit:

    The new wasteland environment looks phenomenal! Please don't make us beg for your toolset haha, there are many of us who would give an arm and a leg for such powerful editing capabilities!
     
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  4. Venom

    Venom Member

    Messages:
    64
    Finally! It's about time an update is released. I'm proud of what you guys have accomplished up until now and I really like how the combat is looking up to be. No lock-on is always a great feature in games that require your entire attention to make the best fights one can imagine. All I wish to see now are the planned variety of weapon types and a wider demonstration of thaumaturgy. Other than this, excellent work! I think the animations have improved, by the way.
     
    Cooper Holt and Humblerbee like this.
  5. Treason

    Treason Insider

    Messages:
    8
    Finally a new update :D

    I like everything I'm hearing except for the controls of combat. Personally, I would want to have more control over where I'm striking with my weapon. Have you looked into possible having a control system similar to Mount and Blade? (Depending on the swish of the mouse your attack can be horizontal left right, or right left, overheard, or thrust.
     
    Humblerbee and Tony like this.
  6. oldgamer4

    oldgamer4 Insider

    Messages:
    16
    Great update :) I predict an upsurge in pledges tomorrow.
     
    Cooper Holt and Blackstaff like this.
  7. MrIdontKnow

    MrIdontKnow Insider

    Messages:
    467
    When I watched this video last night I couldn't sleep! Loved it, the animations actually look really life like now, there are still a few bits that need tightening up and revisiting. I love in the video you say "Madoc is not an animator, nor a swordsman, so that's why the animations are crap. I can imagine Madocs hiding in a hole somewhere rocking back and forth haha!

    But I think it's astonishing how far Madoc brought this game just on his own, you should be VERY X100000 proud. Very pleased that you released an update, it gave me an incentive to up my pledge, and if you keep releasing update that don't necessarily show any gameplay, just an idea of what you've been doing, or what you're looking to do in a week or so. We're like needy children that turn to and play with someone else's house if there's nothing excited to do at home, make that excitement!

    Great job guys, loving it!
     
  8. nox

    nox Insider

    Messages:
    205
    This looks fantastic! Thanks for the update. Keep up the good work, I'm super excited for this game!
     
    Cooper Holt and MrIdontKnow like this.
  9. MrIdontKnow

    MrIdontKnow Insider

    Messages:
    467
    Did anyone see that ghost wielding a sword in that video haha? And to any staff members that can answer me, please tell me that there will be like a console mode where you can spawn creatures. AI humans vs the AI giant is just hilarious. Please post more video footage of them fighting. Maybe a big war fight :p

    Oh and do the skeletons ever really die?

    Also will you allow over funding? Example donations that add onto the pledge reward even after the kick starter finishes? Cause every update I like I'm gonna add on £10 or £5 depending in the spare cash I have. I love this game already.
     
    Cooper Holt likes this.
  10. sunburnedpenguin

    sunburnedpenguin Insider

    Messages:
    18
    Great update! I know you're focusing on the combat because you don't want to give away any of the storyline, but I'd love a tidbit more or two!

    Over a third of the way there now. Keep the updates coming, and perhaps we'll reach the goal. Fingers crossed!
     
  11. Kieran

    Kieran Developer

    Messages:
    65
    Hey guys, thanks for the positive feedback and support! That's almost starting to sound cheesy but I really do mean it. :)

    As the combat is at the moment, we only have swinging weapons. Every attack is chosen out of a set at random, and while each have their perks, it's up to you to react and adjust your aim, or even cancel it (by simply letting go of the mouse button) in favour of parrying. It makes for very skilful gameplay whilst being hugely dynamic and simple to operate. Parrying is automatic, but you're at the mercy of physics, and learning to rotate your character so your parrying arm is better placed to deflect the incoming blow is key.

    I spent a long time playing Mount and Blade, and not to blow my own trumpet but it was one of the games I was very good at, and I'm obviously talking about PvP against some very good players. While it is seriously fun, combat is not very dynamic and it's not hugely fun to watch unless you can appreciate the skill involved in what's going on. It is purely mechanical and looks kind of silly. With only 4 directions of parrying, all of which you can attempt every single attack (if you're quick enough), it is entirely possible to, say, make a macro that cycles parrying every direction, rendering the entire system exploitable. This is not a criticism, I love the game, it's just the nature of a mechanical system.

    This is very, very early combat you're looking at here. Think typical isometric game, where all you can do is left-click. If you were watching someone play the third installment of a game who's name I shall not mention, and all the person was doing was left-click attacking, I think it would be far less enticing. We are going to have special strikes you can incorporate into your build and even stabbing weapons as either an alternate attack, or more specialised weapons like spears. These will be pin-point accurate, based on our epic collisions and bring in a whole new play-style to the early gameplay you're seeing in our videos. We would also like to include double-tap behaviours for dodging and a wide variety of close-quarters utility thaumaturgic powers.

    Shields will play an important role in defensive melee combat, and instead of providing a static defensive bonus, when you aren't attacking you will adopt a sort of bracing stance. It will be up to you to angle the shield into blows, and allow you to perform bashes and other offensive maneouvres. Skill points are very limited, and choosing to incorporate a shield into your build will be a significant build choice, rather than just a damage/defence tradeoff.
     
    Rob, nox, MrIdontKnow and 3 others like this.
  12. Tony

    Tony Moderator

    Messages:
    1,811
    Wow, Kieran, that sounds amazing! If I was 20 years younger and female the expression on my face would look something like this:

    [​IMG]
     
  13. oldgamer4

    oldgamer4 Insider

    Messages:
    16
    Kieran, your last post above is easily the most convincing thing I've read about this project so far in terms of actual gameplay. You should get it up on the KS site somewhere.
     
    Cooper Holt and Pantheon like this.
  14. Venom

    Venom Member

    Messages:
    64
    Extremely impressive post, Kieran. You should post more often! I got excited reading that :)
     
    Cooper Holt and Tony like this.
  15. Pantheon

    Pantheon Insider

    Messages:
    94
    Seriously, do what he says.
    The new video looks great in its own way, but your additional explanations would do much good, too.
    Try to add every info you can give away. The more the better. People want to know what you're trying to accomplish, so tell 'em!
     
  16. David Solomon Fall

    David Solomon Fall Insider

    Messages:
    6
    I agree with Pantheon. The info in the post you made regarding combat should be displayed on the KS website.
    I wasn't sure if I would enjoy the combat from what I had seen of it, until I read your post. The more information regarding the system mechanics(like combat) that is provided, the better reception you'll receive. Right now I know that I wan't to back this game. Based on the post you made concerning the subtleties of combat. Thanks!
     
  17. Kieran

    Kieran Developer

    Messages:
    65
    Thanks for the kind words, we've added it to our KS page as suggested. :)
     
  18. Pantheon

    Pantheon Insider

    Messages:
    94
    Thank you for sharing that insightful information with us :)
     
  19. Maybenot

    Maybenot Insider

    Messages:
    3
    Hi all and dev , this is my first post here , beginning with saying how amazing this game seems to be from what i saw , gives me the same feeling i had watching Ultima Online many years ago :D

    Now speaking of the video , i'd like to add my sensation on what i saw and maybe something stupid to most but that for me would be really cool:

    As you spotted , the animations for now were done by Madoc and are not definitive , BUT having myself experience in fencing etc. , watching the video reminds me of the newcomers who lack the experience or the strenght/technique to handle the sword (or other weapons). The fact is that it is actually REALLY GOOD.

    I mean , it's a RPG , so a huge part of it is the growth of the character , And what i never saw in any game ever , was my character actually starting as a dummy and becoming expert at something Visually , i mean, sure you see more attacks , new special moves , he goes faster , the numbers above the heads are higher , BUT the swing or the stab stay put from the start to the end.

    So in the end having that kind of clumsy animation at the start of the game , making you feel that you have little experience in what you are doing , and then when you go up and skill up , you see your character is more confident , the movements change in confidence , etc etc. , is perfect , i would have the feeling of taking my charachter through this growth
     
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  20. MrIdontKnow

    MrIdontKnow Insider

    Messages:
    467
    Let me start by saying welcome to the forums dude! That's quite an interesting approach to the animations, not something I or many of us will have probably figured. Maybe that's what they had unstick all along.
     

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