What does the player have to lose?
- Thread starter the0thMonkey
- Start date
muxor
Insider
Seriously though, I guess what i'm trying to say is, without sounding like a geriatric, when the diablo 1 buther killed me after two blows I had to treck down a few levels and try to rescue my body with all of its items without being killed again in my weakened state and it holds a special place in my mind.
Quite a lot of masochists here...
I don't think there's anything wrong with a light death penalty, as long as it's communicated properly that death is undesirable. Death is catastrophic failure on part of the player, it doesn't need that many punishments associated with it, the message is clear anyway. Some games give no punishment at all and once the player realises that the game becomes boring very quickly, but it doesn't take much to discourage dying.
The danger of forcing significant death penalties is that the game will be too frustrating to play. We are already fans of the game and won't quit after running into some trap while being on a very fun quest and not being able to get back to it, but new players have only so much tolerance for being lost, not knowing what's going on and making no progress whatsoever.
If harsh death penalties are wanted, there's nothing wrong with making them optional. Respawning in some random part of the world completely naked is probably as bad as it gets, so make that an option that can be chosen when a game is created.
I don't think there's anything wrong with a light death penalty, as long as it's communicated properly that death is undesirable. Death is catastrophic failure on part of the player, it doesn't need that many punishments associated with it, the message is clear anyway. Some games give no punishment at all and once the player realises that the game becomes boring very quickly, but it doesn't take much to discourage dying.
The danger of forcing significant death penalties is that the game will be too frustrating to play. We are already fans of the game and won't quit after running into some trap while being on a very fun quest and not being able to get back to it, but new players have only so much tolerance for being lost, not knowing what's going on and making no progress whatsoever.
If harsh death penalties are wanted, there's nothing wrong with making them optional. Respawning in some random part of the world completely naked is probably as bad as it gets, so make that an option that can be chosen when a game is created.
BrecMadak
Insider
Penalties will not be light, as it was confirmed by Madoc himself clearly, so stop making dreamy assumption since optionality (lol?) in penalty is impossible as it is already against the stance and philosophy of SG.
If you are looking for light penalties SG simply won't be a game for you.
If you are looking for light penalties SG simply won't be a game for you.
Komuflage
Insider
Or you work harder to hold on to what you worked hard to get in the first place.
I have no problem being able to stick gear in a magic spacial fold or whatever. It's not like you are able to take advantage of your spoony sword of silvery smiteing if it is bagged up in a pocket universe. If you equip your gear you risk it, so you get to choose "do I wear my best gear all the time and have less chance of dieing, or do I only break out my good stuff for boss battles". I think it would be kind of harsh to lose all your best gear you were saving before you got a chance to even use it...
Mati9319
Supporter
This sounds interesting I must say. Frankly, if I lose my equipment upon death, BUT it doesn't disappear into thin air (e.g. gets stolen by someone, according to your - pretty realistic anyway - idea) and I can reacquire it, then well... I completely agree with that! I could always have some spare weapons/armor/items/money in my private stash. It would be unbelievably cool if we'd be able to rent an apartment, then get our very own key to said room, which would contain (besides bed and some on-wall lamp) various containers such as wardrobe and a cupboard, but most importantly: a lockable chest!
Sounds pretty cool. It'd be great to meet a guy who stole our belongingsThe RPG aspect would really come into play if your death was witnessed by NPCs (who presumably looted your corpse, hence loss of all that). (...) Of course, if you get killed fairly often, folks will eventually learn to expect to see you again, and you'll gather a herd of both fanboys and witchhunters always after you.
In case of some random bum or an average pickpocket, he'd be scared to death Whoa whoa whoa! I hope we won't be respawning after such LONG amount of time, which would allow happening of all you wrote above (excluding former acquaintances will at first regard you as undead and treat you as such, cause it's cool
). I'd say that 24 hours would do the trick. I also hope that respawning's gonna be explained lore-wise and we're gonna get answer to one burning question: why our character is the only one who can do that, cause BM once stated that there won't be any respawning NPCs in SG. Also there should be a certain amount of time after which our apartment gets sold in case of our (unexplained) absence.
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RobG
Insider
it will be/has been confirmed already (also I think hinted at in lore already in Exanima) BM are really great at giving meaning and purpose to everything.
The thing is you will wake up in a random location on the map (I think) so probably depends on how fast you can get home above anything else..
Bullethead
Member
Flattered to be quoted; I just hope the mods don't mind thread necrophilia
.Anyway, I'm a fan of Kipling's poem "If". I think the following part is especially applicable to Exanima/SG:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
IOW, it's the character that matters, not the material possessions. Which is why you need to retain all your skill techniques even though you wake up naked. If you've got skill, then you can pick up any of the many expedient weapons and barrel lids littering the gameworld and use them to despoil those with better gear but less skill. A few upgrades along these lines and you're quickly back in business. And the neat part is, this forces you to grow as a player because you'll have to adapt to different gear than you had before, in a part of the world that perhaps you've never been to before.
OTOH, if you've got no skill yet, then getting killed really doesn't set you back enough to worry about anyway
.But anyway, if you have keys, they'll be gone along with anything else you had on your when you died. So your caches will probably have to be outside, buried under cairns of rocks you pile up in unfrequented parts of the boonies.
How much time passes between when you die and when you respawn might not be as big a factor as where you wake up relative to where you died. I'm hoping it will be far away, preferrably in an area you haven't visited yet. So then you have a choice: return ASAP to your familiar surroundings or start a new life in a new land. If you choose the latter, then it might be years before you meet anybody who knew you before, and they'll have gone on with their own lives. In fact, it would probably be best to stay away from your old associates so they don't burn you at the stake for being undead.Whoa whoa whoa! I hope we won't be respawning after such LONG amount of time, which would allow happening of all you wrote above (excluding former acquaintances will at first regard you as undead and treat you as such, cause it's cool
It's probably because you offended the gods so you're cursed with returning to life instead of going on to the blissful afterlife.
Or the whole series of adventures you have after your 1st death is all just the hallucenations of a dying brain and takes place in the few seconds you're lying their bleeding out. None of it ever really happens and to everybody else, you're just dead right then and there, forever.
The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, anyone?
Mati9319
Supporter
Yeah, I know. Only wonder how much in-game time is going to pass between dying and respawning. If it's gonna happen instantly then well... it's even better for me.
Also, besides killing there should be as well an option to only beat up (and also be beaten up) people, just like in Gothic series. Would be cool if being "killed" by unpermanent damage would only leave you writhing in pain on the floor for a good bit of seconds. During this time, a NPC that really wants to kill you, would do that using 1-3 overhead swings and vice versa. Would work perfectly if you only want to give someone a lesson without killing him.
Mati9319
Supporter
To Bullethead:
I generally agree with everything you wrote, but well...
And I surely won't be starting a new life. I'll be getting right back and kicking ass of the bastard who now wields my sword!
I generally agree with everything you wrote, but well...
Let's not forget that the world instances are gonna be relatively small, but content packed. So let's not exaggerate with years
And I surely won't be starting a new life. I'll be getting right back and kicking ass of the bastard who now wields my sword!
RobG
Insider
Im trying to remember how they covered it in Torment I think it was fairly instantaneous awakening back on the slab in the mortuary but then again in game time wasnt really a thing in that game.
It seems reasonable for death to have a reasonable amount of recovery time I think haha. Plus when you get back to your stuff, naked and swordless you still have to kill the thing that killed you the first time when you HAD a sword never mind the peasant child wannabe hero who just ran into the underworld with all your gear xD
It seems reasonable for death to have a reasonable amount of recovery time I think haha. Plus when you get back to your stuff, naked and swordless you still have to kill the thing that killed you the first time when you HAD a sword never mind the peasant child wannabe hero who just ran into the underworld with all your gear xD
ZaratanCho
Insider
Haha depends on how lost you are. Doubt most of the time it will be at all easy to find your way back where you died or track down who scavenged your gear and/or deal with potential threats. Obviously getting into fights won't be something to be taken lightly. Oh i died let me quickly run back to my corpse and collect my gear, surely nothing will impede me and i know exactly how to get there. It would be funny randomly running into someone wearing your favorite armor/shirt though.
