What must SG have to leave a good first impression?

[Xerxes]

Since I'm tired of telling people what's stupid and what's not while getting bombarded by 6000 individuals with different opinions that are so eager to show their critical thinking skills that they forget to bring any facts to back them up, I decide to actually do the community a favour and ask the most important question for any games. (again, in my mind)

Me and most other casual gamers would only play a game for 5 minutes and then decide if it is good or not. If a game leaves me with good impression, I will tell my friends to buy it and give it a shot.
If after 5 to 10 minutes I still don't get any fun out of it, and there aren't any promises of it getting any better, I will tell my friends that this game is a bit of old crap, and they should avoid it by any means.
Yes, I know it is unfair, but games are too easy to come by today. I have like 450 games kicking around in my steam lib alone, and I've only tried like 200 of them. The only way I would play a game for more than 1 hour is either someone I really respect said the game is a must try or I'm deeply attracted to it in the first few minutes. (again, I'm only speaking for myself and it is not intended to offend any people)

There are many games in my honest opinion that have impressed me at a glance. Heavy rain, Diablo 2, Starcraft 2, God of war 3, Uncharted 3, silent hill 2, Deus ex (that title music!), binding of isaac, Dark souls and demon's souls, Armored core 4A. Some of these games attracted my by their settings along, like dark souls and Armored core. Others give me the feel of freshness, such as heavy rain and binding of isaac. Many games start the player in a playground of mindless fun. The list goes on and on. So post below what games have left you with a good first impression, and why they did.

I'm tempted to verbally assassinate a few games that did poorly on this front, but I had enough objections and flame wars already. This thread is for positives and positives only. (If anyone is already offended and ready to kill me and burn my house down, then feel free to leave)

 

[666jet]

I can understand where your coming from but I believe this game isn't meant for casual gamer but I think it will cater for the people who only play for short time and make there mind up I think the physics alone would get there attention but this is just my opinion

 

[Komuflage]

A few games that left me with a good first impression, and I knew I would play for quite a while.

Demon's Souls. When I first heard about Demon's souls (Which was a Japan Exclusive at that time) I got really hyped, I didn't even watch/read much, just a video of a boss fight, but it looked so amazing. I decided to not watch, nor read any more, just w8 for the EU release.
So I Pre ordered Demon's souls Limited edition, and bought myself a PS3 at the same time. (Yes just watching a boss fight, got me hyped enough to by a PS3, for that game alone)

Starting up the game and creating my character, I was glad to see, that even with a new character you would start with some decent looking gear. Some classes even looked to have some really good heavy armour. Also I noted that some classes started at different levels, which was a new and fun way of doing it. Also, there were quite a lot of stats. (I love stats, can spend hours just looking through, trying to learn, and theory craft about it)
So I created my Knight (I prefer Warrior oriented classes) and as soon as I just killed the first 2 enemys, and understanding how the combat system worked. It was in one way quite simple, but yet so promising.
I continued trough the tutorial level, until I stood outside a fog gate to, what looks to be the first boss fight. I went in, and saw this huge ass Demon/troll looking thing with a giant axe. With my heavy armour, I ran as fast as it would let me, thinking, I should try to get behind him. He took one swing with his axe and killed me in the first attack. Like 5 seconds from entering the boos room and I was defeated. I fell in love with the game after that "fight" and now consider it the best game I've ever played.


Eve online. I've read stories about eve for years, it sounded so unique.
Last winter I decided to finally try it out, and so I created a trial account and got in game, greeted by one of the best character creation system I've ever seen. I got ingame, and started the tutorial, got my first little ship and started doing some beginner "quests" Now it's difficult to put my finger on what exactly made me fall in love with this game. But I think it was a combination of the atmosphere, which is really something else, the music, and just the potencial of what this game could become in 30hours. For me, seeing the potential of a game, or a mechanic of a game, is often what gets me hooked, I can have a really bad "first experience" but still love a game, just because I see the potensial of what it'll become, once I learn it.

I made these "stories" a little bit to long, so I won't write any more down, don't want this wall to be to high

 

[Pilluminati]

I think you can see from a single video the potential that Sui Generis has.
Pretty much everyone I've showed it to has been amazed by the early pre-alpha footage (including "casuals").
Those clips only had combat in them, but since it's so dynamic it looks incredibly fun. And those clips didn't even mention the dynamic world/AI they are planning to create.
I think there's some misunderstanding that casuals will only play dumb games (not talking "mobile/social casual" here). Why are Dota2/LoL/Sc2 so popular? Those games have very steep learning curves. You don't necessarily cater more to casuals by dumbing down the game. I'm not saying a steep learning curve is a good thing, but neither is the lack of depth, that's why we should strive to reduce complexity while trying to increase the depth. Dumbing down usually means reducing both, which is why it fails. I think Sui Generis succeeds perfectly in both areas due to it's dynamic nature. It's intuitive, yet has a huge amount of depth.

 

[Komuflage]

I'm not saying a steep learning curve is a good thing, but neither is the lack of depth, that's why we should strive to reduce complexity while trying to increase the depth.

I never though of that, (most likely because most game that aren't complicated, don't have a lot of depth) but I think it's quite true. After all, Demon's souls is a very simple game in it's core, but due to the depth of the combat system, there is a big difference between a bad player, and a skilled player. More so compared to other "simple" games.

 

[Xerxes]

Man, I don't know how people's brains work, but that "casual gamer" was meant to be sarcastic. Are people these days jump to the conclusion after finish reading the first sentence and would rather give out snarky comments that show everyone how clever and cool they are than constructive criticism?

I'm in no way a casual gamer, I only plays a lot of games and never stick to one for too long unless it is really good. Even though I'm not a collector, I have spend most of my disposable income on games, and peripherals.

May be SG is the best game human has ever created, but BM is not nintendo, not sony, not blizzard. None of the devs have ever been involved in any-big-thing related to games.There are thousands of new indie titles coming out each month, and why would people chose SG instead of those? Just because the physics engine? it is totally innovative, but only the really nerdy ones can appreciate how much effort must went into it. I fall in love with it the second I saw it, and I've never been that exciting since getting my first super nintendo. However, most people do not give a damn. You may invent a microwave oven that run on anti-matter, it's still an oven. Not to mention, most gamers care more about flashy graphics and the promise of ultra-violence and nudity than some total break through of technology.

When I say first impression, I meant the game has to show gamers what it is about in 5 minutes. Like an elevator pitch (also known as elevator speech).

I will make my question a bit more easier to interpret by most gamers' brain.
What is an effective opening, how to make people start caring, how to draw people in? If I put you in a newbie's shoe, and what kind of 5 minutes would make you fall in love with the game? Do you like cinematic? Do you like gapless fights after fights? Or watching some guy gets his head bite off in slow motion? Plz be imaginative for maybe first time in your life, and speak out loud the scenario that would create the most amount of fun in 5 minutes.

Or,
Are we going to do the standard "hold mouse to attack, try to press up arrow key without breaking your finger" tutorial, or will this game start you in a jail and you are then rescued? Or just drop you into the game without any thing to get the player started at all like all other indie titles?

Saying the game is good enough, it does not need to do anything is the worst answer ever.

I don't want to be rude, but seeing people misunderstanding my topic pains me greatly. I truly hope it is clear enough now. And no, I will not apology first.

 

[Komuflage]

Man, I don't know how people's brains work, but that "casual gamer" was meant to be sarcastic. Are people these days jump to the conclusion after finish reading the first sentence and would rather give out snarky comments that show everyone how clever and cool they are than constructive criticism?

I'm in no way a casual gamer, I only plays a lot of games and never stick to one for too long unless it is really good. Even though I'm not a collector, I have spend most of my disposable income on games, and peripherals.

May be SG is the best game human has ever created, but BM is not nintendo, not sony, not blizzard. None of the devs have ever been involved in any-big-thing related to games.There are thousands of new indie titles coming out each month, and why would people chose SG instead of those? Just because the physics engine? it is totally innovative, but only the really nerdy ones can appreciate how much effort must went into it. I fall in love with it the second I saw it, and I've never been that exciting since getting my first super nintendo. However, most people do not give a damn. You may invent a microwave oven that run on anti-matter, it's still an oven. Not to mention, most gamers care more about flashy graphics and the promise of ultra-violence and nudity than some total break through of technology.

When I say first impression, I meant the game has to show gamers what it is about in 5 minutes. Like an elevator pitch (also known as elevator speech).

I will make my question a bit more easier to interpret by most gamers' brain.
What is an effective opening, how to make people start caring, how to draw people in? If I put you in a newbie's shoe, and what kind of 5 minutes would make you fall in love with the game? Do you like cinematic? Do you like gapless fights after fights? Or watching some guy gets his head bite off in slow motion? Plz be imaginative for maybe first time in your life, and speak out loud the scenario that would create the most amount of fun in 5 minutes.

Or,
Are we going to do the standard "hold mouse to attack, try to press up arrow key without breaking your finger" tutorial, or will this game start you in a jail and you are then rescued? Or just drop you into the game without any thing to get the player started at all like all other indie titles?

Saying the game is good enough, it does not need to do anything is the worst answer ever.

I don't want to be rude, but seeing people misunderstanding my topic pains me greatly. I truly hope it is clear enough now. And no, I will not apology first.

Well it's difficult to know if u're sarcastic or not in written, a u did say that if a game aint good within 5 min, u'll tell ur friends it's a bad game. (maybe u were sarcastic at that point as well) but how can we know?

"Are people these days jump to the conclusion after finish reading the first sentence and would rather give out snarky comments that show everyone how clever and cool they are than constructive criticism?"
Your whole second paragraph was about u being a casual gamer, so in no way did anyone "jump to conclusion"

Also ur question was "So post below what games have left you with a good first impression, and why they did."
And personally that was what I did, I posted 2 games that left me with a good first impression, and why they did that.

If you wanted us to post what we think a game need in order to leave a good first impression, then why not say so from the start?

U seem awfully hostile in this post, and I don't get why?
For the most part this forum has been great, and u can actually discuss things with people without "flame wars" or similar, can we please try to keep it like that?

 

[Parco]

For the most part this forum has been great, and u can actually discuss things with people without "flame wars" or similar, can we please try to keep it like that?

keep your hippie mouth shut you overgrown lizard, let the f-warz begin

(behold my photo editing skillz, there is none)
jk
games that left a good impression with me have to be jedi outcast, magicka, lol/dota and dark souls from what i can immediately think of. jedi outcast might not have a very interesting story but the combat was awesome, it was fluid and one can one-hit anyone but the same also goes for the enemies. magicka was easy to learn and both the story and gameplay was fun (alot of comedy) but also similar to sg it was hard to master, you might have thought you were quite good when you finished the story but once you went pvp with other people you quickly discover the skill level went even further up. lol and dota are amazing games because each game doesnt usually last more than a hour and you get to test your skills as a duelist, strategist and as a team player. there are 100+ heroes/champions and alot of different items to choose from and each player uses different play style so each game is unique. dark souls got fun combat and a ok story. the combat is hard, especially in the first play through but once one get used to the combat then one will stop dying so often. i also like that you can proceed in the story as you want. the pvp in DS is also unique in the way its built up, where you can invade other people, would be better if ther was a way one could choose who to invade. i lost alot in pvp because i always got backstabbed, but it turned around when i got the black knight greateaxe and the dragon greatsword and started 1-2 hitting people

 

[Xerxes]

If you wanted us to post what we think a game need in order to leave a good first impression, then why not say so from the start?

The question is in my title, and anyone who are in this thread should have read it. I simply could not see how people would take it in any other way. I was not hostile, just out of patience explaining the most basics. And I'm glad you were on the track this time. That post was not directed at you. Just try to tell all future posts to be constructive, rather than posting about how they think the topic is pointless and how casuals are bad. I prefer posts to be carefully thought out, rather than pointing out the obvious and do things even a 12 years old can do. That is saying that's stupid, and I'm smarter because I don't like it.

I also need to point out that casual is a relative term. Compare myself to people who game 12 hours a day, I'm a casual. But I'm not the type that only play wii sports and angry bird. Most players are casual when judging them by game categories they are interested in. I doubt a hardcore Dota player would have the time to learn how to Day z, because most of his time is taken by Dota, and all he want is a bit of escape and a good time. Not to find another job. If the first 5 minutes are not terribly interesting, and the game is not well known, then it is likely they would not try to like it.

Your answer was not very satisfying. It is very vague. You've listed the whole experience, but what has caught your eyes? What's the best part of that experience? What would you expect the first 5 minutes of SG be like?

 

[Komuflage]

Your answer was not very satisfying. It is very vague. You've listed the whole experience, but what has caught your eyes? What's the best part of that experience? What would you expect the first 5 minutes of SG be like?

I wouldn't say this is true, the demon's souls tutorial I talked about, takes like 10 minutes to complete. In other words, I fell in love in the game within 10 minutes, and also noticed how promising the combat system was within maybe 2-3 minutes of gameplay. If not less. So, far from the whole experience

Same thing about Eve, after character creation, you'll play some ~5 min before u get a ship and can start some beginner "quests"

However, it's hard to say exactly what makes a good first impression.
AAA Games, aka casual games often start of big, with action very early as to get the players engaged as soon as they start the game. And this is for the very reason you list in the first post "if after 5 to 10 minutes I still don't get any fun out of it, and there aren't any promises of it getting any better, I will tell my friends that this game is a bit of old crap"

For me personally, I don't need instant action to be hooked to the game. For me, a big part of the experience is theory crafting, hence I like games with loads of number and stats. Seeing something that looks promising for theory crafting is a great thing for the "first experience" for me. (Like I said about Demon's souls, while in character creation u'll see loads of different stats, hinting about what you can create.)
But what's most important for me, is seeing the potential of most game mechanics (Combat system, skill system, inventory system and so on) so a little bit of everything is quite important for me.
Give me a few monster or training dummy or whatever, to get a taste of the combat, make me use the character screen, and the "skill screen" should look interesting enough for me to look through and trying to learn how it works.

I'm also a huge fan of boss fights, that's another thing that really keeps me going in a game, difficult bosses, and force me to learn their mechanics, attacks, animations and so on, and all this under tension, it should be fast and brutal, leaving me "no time to think". In other words, I need to observe how he works, while at the same time, blocking, dodging and evading attacks, keep the tension up, and the adrenalin pumping.

So some sort of boss early on, that shows me how the boss experience will be is also important.
As I mentioned I fell in love with Demon's souls right after the first boss. I only fought him for like 5 seconds, (Not enough time to observe him or learning how he works) but being one hit:ed by the first boss "showed" me the potential of boss fights. Again, it's important for me to see the potential, not necessary get the full experience.

 

[ZaratanCho]

You know alot of the people who judge a game in 5 minutes without even paying attention in those five minutes, will not see the potential in anything. Some games use instant action as Kamuflage said, but I don't like that(sometimes it is ok). Thing is alot of people have already decided on the game before they play it, they have seen some video/commercial, someone told them to play it or things like these. Marketing plays a huge role for the 'casuals'. The first five minutes should be whatever will fit best for the game and the story and makes the most sense. Trying to shove as much as possible in the first minutes of the game just to try and show "what the game is about"(not story) for the sake of potentially keeping the interest of a few. People who are going to like the game will not need that.


Having a short intro (cutscene or whatever it is called) with a great atmosphere giving some interesting backstory can definitely make me stick with a game for a while even if the starting gameplay is not the most exciting thing in the world. An effective opening for me. It can make people care and draw them in.

Whatever you do you can't make so it pleases everyone, there will always be the ones and the others. ;D

 

[fluffydino2000]

For SG, I'd imagine the most effective opening would be one that creates the intrigue and curiosity you'll end up having in the lore as quickly as possible. I think trying to show off the combat in five minutes without an explanation of how it works will be ineffective. If it put a simple problem in front of the player that they could solve in dynamic ways that would show obviously dynamic reactions it'll be good. Finally, if it demonstrated a lot of choice in conversation, it might show off the dynamic AI and story in a quick way.

 

[Fawz]

Based on what we've seen and heard about SG, it looks like it'll be a niche game that doesn't touch a broad audience but those that it does appeal to will become hardcore fans.

Taking that into consideration, I don't think the game should force itself into wowing the player in the first 10min to ensure there is retained interest in the long run. If anything I see this game building itself up slowly.

As was mentioned, not everyone likes the same thing and you can never appeal to everyone. There are plenty of games that focus on the first 10min to hook you in. I personally don't like that approach, and I don't think SG will go that route. That being said, it doesn't mean that the game should take hours before feeling like it really started.

To leave a strong impression on me I think all SG needs is a deep sense of immersion and intrigue. From all that we've seen adn heard that seems to be the case

 

[Rod_Lightning]

If I had to judge every game within 5 minutes of playing I would've missed out on pretty much every game ever.

 

[the0thMonkey]

I think the essence of this task is trying to show the player the full potential of the game in the first 5 minutes. This is difficult because the player often does not know the controls, backstory, motivations etc required to play the game and enjoy it.

Here is the Extra Credits episode on designing the first 5 minutes of a game:

Might I also add that often it is not the first 5 minutes that create the impression but the updates, trailers, Kickstarter videos, previews, snapshots, etc that come before. Why would you go to all the trouble of buying, downloading, and installing the game just to play it for 5 minutes?

 

[Tom]

I just wanted to say that I do believe that most, if not all posts on this thread are very valuable if and of themselves. There's a "nugget of truth" to everything said here, and it might help the Devs consider how to pitch the game once it's close to release.

I went in, and saw this huge ass Demon/troll looking thing with a giant axe. With my heavy armour, I ran as fast as it would let me, thinking, I should try to get behind him. He took one swing with his axe and killed me in the first attack. Like 5 seconds from entering the boos room and I was defeated. I fell in love with the game after that "fight" and now consider it the best game I've ever played.

First off, you played a Souls game - respect *brofist*

Now, the experience that you had, while very good for that kind of game, is not by any means what most people will have. The average player, when facing ridiculously difficult things in the early game, will be intimidated, and rightly so; if you're used to games where the difficulty starts at 1, and slowly builds up to 10, then a game that starts at 11 will freak you out to say the least.

What I'm trying to say is that if Sui Generis is to be known by a broader audience, then it has to consider what's the best way to portray the game in the first minutes of gameplay. If the game's intention is to show that the world is a merciless, hopeless place, where no matter what you do you only makes things worse, and you'll die repeatedly, then that's what you show, like in Demon Souls.

It's a tough act to balance. On the one hand, you want more players, more sales, so you make money out of this business. On the other, you don't want to dilute the game's quality in order to appeal to the masses.

 

[Komuflage]

I just wanted to say that I do believe that most, if not all posts on this thread are very valuable if and of themselves. There's a "nugget of truth" to everything said here, and it might help the Devs consider how to pitch the game once it's close to release.




First off, you played a Souls game - respect *brofist*

Now, the experience that you had, while very good for that kind of game, is not by any means what most people will have. The average player, when facing ridiculously difficult things in the early game, will be intimidated, and rightly so; if you're used to games where the difficulty starts at 1, and slowly builds up to 10, then a game that starts at 11 will freak you out to say the least.

What I'm trying to say is that if Sui Generis is to be known by a broader audience, then it has to consider what's the best way to portray the game in the first minutes of gameplay. If the game's intention is to show that the world is a merciless, hopeless place, where no matter what you do you only makes things worse, and you'll die repeatedly, then that's what you show, like in Demon Souls.

It's a tough act to balance. On the one hand, you want more players, more sales, so you make money out of this business. On the other, you don't want to dilute the game's quality in order to appeal to the masses.

I understand what u're saying, but keep in mind that the souls games have become kind of popular these days, mainly because their difficulty.

 

[Tom]

I understand what u're saying, but keep in mind that the souls games have become kind of popular these days, mainly because their difficulty.

Popular, yes, undoubtedly, but it's not the same as user-friendly. A lot of people hear about it shudder, and usually watch others play it on Let's Plays (I personally watched Squint's let's play of Demon Souls, great stuff).

What I'm saying is that goal of the devs in terms of the audience they want to capture is what really matters, and that's all there is to it.

 

[Rob]

I think the essence of this task is trying to show the player the full potential of the game in the first 5 minutes

Some games do this by starting off with a fully-fledged high-skilled character, in a completely overwhelming battle situation whereby there's no chance that the player can win. The important thing is that the user has seen the potential "power" that will be unleashed later in the game. Then, after the prologue, the player starts off with absolutely nothing, ready to build up towards the character that they've glimpsed at the start. Situations such as amnesia/coma/reincarnation are often used to justify this. Obviously, it is of vital importance for the story to lend itself to this sort of thing in order for this to be an appropriate way to start the game. Whether this sort of thing would be appropriate for Sui Generis... who knows?!

 

[ZaratanCho]

I hope not. This hurts the more opened games, because it feels more like you are building up to an established character/view. Not like you are starting more or less blank and you develop however you want. It's not that big of a deal, but i still don't like it(it can be mostly ignored). It definitely seems to work alot better in more linear games.

I can say more about why I don't like this in most cases, but it gets too complicated for me to explain. ;D