Buildings and destruction

[SRJR]

Earlier today I imagined a game scenario in which buildings could be destroyed. Of course this would be challenging to do in a game like Sui Generis (how much damage would the roof deal when it falls down on you? how many individual objects are in a section of wall?) but let's assume that buildings can be destroyed.

This invites some problems- for example, the player would be able to destroy an entire city because they were bored. Not realistic.
However, a solution could be a guard at every building. Any damage you deal to the building, the guard will try to deal double back to you. If you accidentally hit a wall, the guard only swings at you once or twice, no big deal. If you keep damaging the building, the guard will have to hit you more. If you hit the guard, he (and other guards) will aggro you and attack.

This system could even work in a multiplayer setting- patrolling repair men (or guards) would repair damage done to buildings. In this way, buildings can only be destroyed only as a result of many players cooperating (not trolling or griefing). If a building is completely destroyed, the city could begin rebuilding it (cover the area with a scaffold for an in-game month, and the building returns).

Does this seem like a mechanic that would make a game more enjoyable?

 

[Komuflage]

Like the idea of destroyable buildings, but the guard part seem vert mechanical and not very immersive? Just a simple "it's against the law to attack buildings" and whoever does so will have to pay a fee or go to prison. However i doubt that we will be able to destroy whole buildings. I think I read on another thread where BM said that we wouldn't be able to destroy whole buildings: "the odd wall sure, but not the whole building" (or something like that)

 

[The Urban Spaceman]

Yeah I read that too. No destructible buildings apart from the odd wall or floor. Plus I don't think you will ever reach god like status in SG. They say it will take multiple play throughs before you can even attempt to fight some enemies & presumably reach certain locations.

Although thaumatergy will grant the the player an awesome power that evolves to become stronger & more varied in its application I don't think you will ever be able to rely on that power alone to succeed in the game.

 

[SRJR]

I figured as much, it's just fun to talk about mechanics.

The thing that bothers me about fines and prison sentences is when they come into effect- for example in bethesda games, you commit one crime and every guard is telepathically notified. To fix this, a time-out could be put in place (all guards are notified after 24 hours). But what happens if you are standing next to a guard when the timer runs out? Does he attack you out of nowhere?
That's why I like the guard system, it's organic and instantaneous. The only alternative I can think of is a subtle aggro/faction system, where news of your crimes passes from the witnessing NPC to others when they get close enough. Even that has its problems, because how can the game keep track of all those off-screen NPCs?
Maybe some combined solution is the answer.

 

[Komuflage]

If you attack a building and a npc see or hear it, they'll run to a guard, if you manage to silence this npc before it reaches a guard (or any other npc) you're of the hook, however if the npc manage to reach a guard, that guard will start chasing you, while he's chasing you, he'll scream after more guards who will join the chase, if they catch you, you'll pay the price. If you manage to escape, they'll put up wanted poster in the city.

You're right, it's of topic, therefore I'll leave this as it's and will continue that discussion in another thread.

 

[SRJR]

If you manage to escape, they'll put up wanted poster in the city.

This is really important, otherwise the player could just kill every NPC in the game one by one, and nobody would suspect a thing. There is still a problem with it, though- when do the posters show up? Do they just appear on the sides of buildings when you are not looking?

In-game Law and punshment is worth its own thread; I'll get back to the original topic of building destruction.

After looking at the size and stature of buildings in videos, it makes sense that they won't be destructible. Unless that gnoll/troll/ogre fellow is a playable character, there's no realistic reason a player should be able to destroy a building.

 

[666jet]

This is really important, otherwise the player could just kill every NPC in the game one by one, and nobody would suspect a thing. There is still a problem with it, though- when do the posters show up? Do they just appear on the sides of buildings when you are not looking?

In-game Law and punshment is worth its own thread; I'll get back to the original topic of building destruction.

After looking at the size and stature of buildings in videos, it makes sense that they won't be destructible. Unless that gnoll/troll/ogre fellow is a playable character, there's no realistic reason a player should be able to destroy a building.

what a bout a master in fire magic im pretty sure they could destroy a building

 

[Meaghan Ballard]

It would be more realistic if you could at least damage buildings, even if you can't destroy them. For example, if you through a fireball at a wall, even if it doesn't catch the wood would still be charred.

 

[The Hedge Knight]

I figured as much, it's just fun to talk about mechanics.

The thing that bothers me about fines and prison sentences is when they come into effect- for example in bethesda games, you commit one crime and every guard is telepathically notified. To fix this, a time-out could be put in place (all guards are notified after 24 hours). But what happens if you are standing next to a guard when the timer runs out? Does he attack you out of nowhere?
That's why I like the guard system, it's organic and instantaneous. The only alternative I can think of is a subtle aggro/faction system, where news of your crimes passes from the witnessing NPC to others when they get close enough. Even that has its problems, because how can the game keep track of all those off-screen NPCs?
Maybe some combined solution is the answer.

I don't see why you are making it so mechanical. Why not just make it so a guard or some one has to go run to another guard or ting a bell for everyone to be alerted, or for a citizen to go and grab a guard.

 

[Mimel]

I don't see why you are making it so mechanical. Why not just make it so a guard or some one has to go run to another guard or ting a bell for everyone to be alerted, or for a citizen to go and grab a guard.

I agree. Let's not make it too complicated. Someone has to see you do something, then alert the guard or not, depending on their reaction to you or your actions.

I also agree, that I don't want everyone to automatically know what I have done. So, stealth, waiting for the right moment when no one is looking or being in disguise, can all help with not being detected.

 

[martino]

While what your asking for have been done before (in Red Faction I believe). I believe the engines to support such effects is still a little way off. With the advent of minecraft and similar engined games, we are starting to move towards fully destructible environments again. Even the new X-com you could blow the crap out of the lower floor of a building and it would not collapse.

Maybe Madoc's engine in the future will support such mechanics. But the the question arises, how do you store all of that information.

 

[MrIdontKnow]

Yeah it's in a thread I created which would have answered your question.

http://www.baremettle.com/sg/forums/index.php?threads/realistic-gameplay.70/

 

[NT122]

I think it should be possible, but where the player is hardly ever the cause. Perhaps an ogre throws you through a castle wall, and you use your thaumaturgy to shield yourself.

 

[Fawz]

Having fully destructible environments would be a lot of work, but having some basic destructibility would be awesome. Already just having small objects move around is pretty cool. Adding in a few basic layers of objects that can be broken without reshaping the world too drastically would be pretty neat.

An example of what I'm talking would be to have it so that hitting a brick wall causes a small hole and a few bricks to fly off but never really breaks the brick wall so the design for areas doesn't change.

 

[the0thMonkey]

I think a problem with variable levels of destructibility (unless well defined) is that it can break immersion. If the game sets the standard of destructible objects, players expect this to be consistent throughout the game. Destructible bottles implies destructible furniture which implies destructible buildings which implies destructible terrain. This obviously isn't always the case, but it is very important for an immersive game to set a consistent standard, regardless of whether or not that standard is realistic.