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Daemons, Demons and Dragons... And the likes of it

Scarecrow

Scarecrow

Insider
So, we already know that Sui Generis will feature big ogres, different races, undead etc. What i wonder is whether the game will feature especially deadly creatures like Demons, Dragons, Behemoths or anything similar, and if the Sui Generis community would like this or not. I think that with the combat system, thaumaturgy and the game engines physics, it could result in some truly epic battles. Personally, i would love for deadly creatures like this to exist in the game. I know this game is supposed to be low fantasy and all, and i don't think Dragons are going to be in it. But what about other "Epic" creatures?
 
fluffydino2000

fluffydino2000

Insider
I'm all for huge creatures making the ogres look puny. If locational damage is done correctly, it could create some really interesting boss battles. I also just thought that climbing onto huge enemies might be cool as well, dragon's dogma style.
 
Komuflage

Komuflage

Insider
Personally I'm all for these giant creatures, they're in to few games nowadays.
But they need to be strong as hell, and sparse. not a la Skyrim with dragons everywhere. Maybe like 2-3 in the whole game at max, and they should be "impossible" for a normal character who haven't played 5+ playthroughs to beat.

I know that some people here on the forums don't want that sort of thing, but personally I'm all for it, IF it's done right.

I dunno how climbing on enemies will work in a isometric game though.
 
Parco

Parco

Moderator
i dont think we should have much larger creatures than ogres, we would have a problem seeing its whole body on the screen then:p if they were that big and the dmg were to match the size then they could 1hit anyone thats smaller than a ogre :p indeed climbing enemies would be fun but i dont know how it would work out on this type of game.
instead of having dragons, what about wyverns instead? smaller, weaker, doesnt necessarily breath flames/poisen, not as adapt flyers as dragons, repellent temperament and not as intelligent. tall as a human when standing on all 4 and tall as a ogre when standing on 2 legs. strong as a lion, fast as a gazelle and agile as a cat, razor sharp claws and poisonous/acid/flaming breath.
demons would be interesting to see, my vision on demons would be physically strong and same size as humans, just with alot more thaumaturgical power in a darker form. do they also need wings?
 
Scarecrow

Scarecrow

Insider
I agree in that enemies like that should be very rare, and very difficult to kill. Having some companions with you would definitely be recommended. But it should still require a lot of player skills, and a lot of skill from the players character. I do not however think you can only stand a chance against them after several playthroughs.

Also, i don't think that such creatures should be so large that they have difficulties fitting into the screen. Because, then you will never stand a chance now will you? Demons doesn't necessary need to be all that huge either. They can be like 7-8 feet tall, or roughly the size of an Ogre, only they posses considerably more powers, also in the form of thaumaturgy as Parco Folgore said. Also, i like the idea of Wyverns. Too few games that includes them.
 
Komuflage

Komuflage

Insider
Parco Folgore said:
i dont think we should have much larger creatures than ogres, we would have a problem seeing its whole body on the screen then:p
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Oh right, didn't thought of that :p
I guess for some larger monsters you temporarily could zoom out a bit more.

Parco Folgore said:
youre insane :eek:
i would prefer enemies killable already at the first playthrough :p
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I guess I'm alone in with this opinion :p

Well since the game will feature "NG+" I doubt we'll be able to maximize our character in a normal playthrough.

Madoc mentioned that there will be challenges quite difficult in ur first playthrough, and u might have to start a "ng+" in order to beat them.
And with that in mind, and if there now would be dragons, then they imo should be "impossible" for a near maxed out character to beat. Even a maxed character should imo have a hard time against them.

So personally I'm bored with easy games that claim to be difficult. And having a challenge that actually need enormous of player skill, and time investment would imo be a really great thing.
But I understand that most people don't share that opinion, hence I thought only having a really small number (like 3) and they'd be completely optional then people who doesn't like that kind of thing can just skip them.

Now you already made a valid point in why dragons can't be included, but I would much like if there was a challenge like this, maybe a Demon instead of a dragon though :)
 
Parco

Parco

Moderator
im not in on the idea of it being "impossible" on the first playthrough but rather "extremely hard", i would also like having enemies that would require alot of skills in order to take them down, but not necessarily with maxed out stats being a requirement. and we do not yet know how much time it will take to max out our stats, maybe it will be possible on the first playthrough or we have to do a ng+ or two in order to do so.
dragons doesnt necessarily have to be nearly impossible to defeat, depending on how large the dragons are supposed to be, i think if they would be around the same size as they are in the tv series Merlin then i think it should be doable to kill one, but really hard. but i still think wyverns would fit this game more.
 
BrecMadak

BrecMadak

Insider
I'm all here for demons, morbid and twisted creatures ala Berserk's apostles, they are indeed a mindfuck and you should feel their presence from miles away, speaking of huge huge ones.

Scroll down a bit and there you will see a list of them, they are quite unique and totally feels like out of this world, even they were made out of some animals.

Komuflage said:
So personally I'm bored with easy games that claim to be difficult. And having a challenge that actually need enormous of player skill, and time investment would imo be a really great thing.
But I understand that most people don't share that opinion, hence I thought only having a really small number (like 3) and they'd be completely optional then people who doesn't like that kind of thing can just skip them.
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make it 4 already will ya :p

================
Ahh and this curiosity will kill me one day ! If there is any dev in BM that likes Berserk, personally I think if SG would be influenced by that serie, it would be awesome in many ways.


* And even additionally not to forget that DS is influenced by Berserk in many ways, did any fella know that already ?
 
Komuflage

Komuflage

Insider
Kinda the reason I put "" around Impossible, were to imply, that it's possible, but really difficult.
Same thing with maxed stats, ofc not a requirement, rather, the boss is balanced so a skilled player with a maxed character will have a hard time. It would be possible to kill it with new character, just extremely difficult.

I like the idea of wyverns though, great alternative to a dragon.
 
Madoc

Madoc

Project Lead
A few things I thought I should remind / inform you of:

1) You will not see any dragons in SG.

2) There will be "demons", or at least that's what people call them.

3) We have plans for rare large monstrous creatures but these will likely not appear until late in the game's development.

Finally, If you think you can beat something just because it's there you've got another thing coming, in the end you're still just one puny little human. This goes for "successfully completing" the game too, it's not necessarily going to happen. There's no saving and loading and you're probably going to lose a lot of the fights you get into. You won't be able to follow a fixed narrative. A lot of people are initially taken aback by this but you have to forget everything you know about games and start from scratch. Also, hopefully you're not too keen on happy endings.


On the topic of giant creatures, I find that beyond a certain size the fights just become less and less fun. The larger the creature the more mechanical the fight becomes. A good example of combat against large creatures in my opinion is Vindictus. It has great action gameplay (especially with some classes) and the boss fights in that game can be ridiculously good fun but with time they added larger and larger creatures and the fights became stupid to the point where it's almost reduced to a classic tab targeting MMO raid. Yuck.
 
Komuflage

Komuflage

Insider
Madoc said:
A few things I thought I should remind / inform you of:

1) You will not see any dragons in SG.

2) There will be "demons", or at least that's what people call them.

3) We have plans for rare large monstrous creatures but these will likely not appear until late in the game's development.

Finally, If you think you can beat something just because it's there you've got another thing coming, in the end you're still just one puny little human. This goes for "successfully completing" the game too, it's not necessarily going to happen. There's no saving and loading and you're probably going to lose a lot of the fights you get into. You won't be able to follow a fixed narrative. A lot of people are initially taken aback by this but you have to forget everything you know about games and start from scratch. Also, hopefully you're not too keen on happy endings.
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1) as I thought ;)

3) Great to hear, was hoping for it.

Rest of the quote is just gold. I hate happy endings, but people seems obsessed with them a lot of people complained that they got the "bad" ending when they just went massacre in Dishonored. Imo that should be obvious, and also what I was expecting.

The fact that there will be real challenging enemy's and that it's not even certain that we'll successfully complete the game, seems so amazing, I'm really sick of games with perfect Hollywood endings, and honestly I've a hard time watching movies any more, since you can predict the whole movie including the ending by just watching the first 10-15 minutes. I frankly have a hard time watching a new movie from start to end nowadays.
So again, what you just wrote, Gold to my ears.
 
BrecMadak

BrecMadak

Insider
Komuflage said:
Rest of the quote is just gold.
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Can not agree any more with these approvals as well. I also got sick of devs that profess and promote their 'so called' challenging games and how they fail by a miserable result which leads hardcore mass to be split up at the end. But it is really great to witness in our lives which we live only once that an rpg will success many marvelously deep thought out ideas and will make it true at last ! This solely gives me shiver each time i'm reminded, words can't describe this feeling man.

Additionally wish Madoc would enlighten us just a bit about demons subject without spoiling, if possible.
 
Komuflage

Komuflage

Insider
BrecMadak said:
Can not agree any more with these approvals as well. I also got sick of devs that profess and promote their 'so called' challenging games and how they fail by a miserable result which leads hardcore mass to be split up at the end. But it is really great to witness in our lives which we live only once that an rpg will success many marvelously deep thought out ideas and will make it true at last ! This solely gives me shiver each time i'm reminded, words can't describe this feeling man.

Additionally wish Madoc would enlighten us just a bit about demons subject without spoiling, if possible.
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A group of evil thaumaturgers/ys/s :confused: Who wear a intimitiv (dunno how to spell it) type of black robes, they use fearsome "spells" and since the common folks don't know what "magic" is, they declare them as Demons? :eek:
 
Pilluminati

Pilluminati

Insider
Dragons are way too cliché. Could just as well have zombies and the game would probably become a mainstream hit, cus ZOMBIESS HURRDURR. Or we could have original & awesome monster designs like the ghoul that fit in the setting of SG.
 
Parco

Parco

Moderator
original and awesome monster designs? screw that!!! SG gonna hit the mainstream hard featuring dragon zombies :p

even though im a fan of dragons and wyverns in games and movies, im still kinda glad it wont be featured in this game (dragons at least, madoc havent said anything about wyverns yet :p) as they are found in most fantasy games/movies and i feel sometimes its getting a bit overused. same with zombies, they are cool, i love zombies (playing alot of dayz) but im seeing them everywhere now days and i dont get that excited over new zed games/movies anymore as i used to be, still havent touched the game The last of us yet :p
 
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