Improvments on camera controls in Exanima

[Ben Curtis]

Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\Exanima\Exanima.cfg
CamFollow = 1

It works fairly well against a single opponent. But if you ever come across two opponents attacking you from different sides, you will get completely wrecked.

What was before a straight line, now becomes much more complicated.
Let's say you want to move your cursor to block an attack from an enemy on your left. But when you start moving your cursor to the left, the camera starts rotating. Suddenly the point you wanted to move your cursor is in a different position on your display. These things happen very fast, precision is important when blocking, and it's hard to correct your aiming with a rotating camera.

And it's even harder if you have to alternate between blocking attacks from different angles.

I understand that the main problem is that for some people it's hard to process movement when the camera is not behind the back of the character. But the solution is not putting yourself into an aerotrim.

You can just use the 'space' button to center the view behind the characters back. Things are much easier with a stationary camera. And if you are getting out of your comfort zone and have to rotate the camera, just look at the enemy and press space again. (It's very important that you don't hold space down while attacking!) This way you can always see your character from behind, and you don't have to deal with the camera flailing around when you are blocking/attacking.

I totally agree. I think maybe i'm not explaining well enough how camera-lock and target-lock are different.

So Camera-lock would be where you move the cursor, and the camera tracks your cursor like you describe above. This would be bad for all the reasons you name above.

Target Lock camera... would mean you point your cursor at an opponent you want to target and then hit say Q. When you hit Q, the camera switches from being stationary to tracking your opponent, not the cursor like it does when you hold spacebar. Just like how the camera works in say Grand Theft Auto or Dark Souls but from a more overhead perspective - before the flaming starts let me explain how you keep precise cursor-based combat with this camera system.

So the camera constantly adjusts and repositions so that the opponent is always dead center in front of you. The cursor is still free, you can still move it around and it can even reorientate your character along with it, but maybe your head should stay on the opponent.

If the camera moves, your cursor doesn't move with it, it's always locked to the relative position of your character, rather than moving with the camera. At the moment you have to do this manually from time to time in a fight, or just deal with the awkwardness.

This way, you can side step around your opponent and circle them, at the moment the controls conflict a little bit if you want to sidestep around someone while swinging at them. You could still move within 360 degrees of freedom just like you can now, with the exception of turning to face.

If you wanted to turn and face another opponent you could move the cursor outside of the targeting area, or press Q to switch to the next one, at which point the camera would reorientate itself to face the other opponent, just like you would do manually with the way it currently works. You could even make it so only the camera repositions and you have to readjust the cursor yourself.

Some people have said why do this, because they can get on with it just fine. That may be the case, and it is with me, but I bet that all of you have a prefered setup for swinging, because of the way mice work making nice arcs and precise movements is easier when the arc tracks your elbow, ie. when the camera is over the back of your character.

With one extra key command, you negate the need for any mid-fight camera repositioning, and always have the optimal angle (opponent dead center) to fight in exactly the same way you do now. The control scheme doesn't change at all, you still have tank controls and W & D circle you around the opponent (if this didn't work you could still make it so that they move relative to the opponent, but right now if you keep tapping S and hold D for instance, you can move at varying degrees of to the right and back). All this does is reposition the camera for you as you play, which will feel natural as you're circling an opponent

In most combat situations, with up to probably three opponents this would work nicely I think. In the game if an opponent ends up flanking you, you always turn to face or you get hit. This would still be the case if target locked, the camera would reorientate but the cursor wouldn't, you'd just have to move it into the center.

If you could keep all the precision of combat, keep the degrees of freedom, but just make it so that you are in that ideal comfortable camera setup, then I think it would be better for me personally. There's no reason you couldn't make target locking optional, other than an increased overhead to maintain it as development continues. I think that overhead would pay off for the devs in review scores and sales.

 

[Tony]

So the camera constantly adjusts and repositions so that the opponent is always dead center in front of you. The cursor is still free, you can still move it around and it can even reorientate your character along with it, but maybe your head should stay on the opponent.

If the camera moves, your cursor doesn't move with it, it's always locked to the relative position of your character, rather than moving with the camera. At the moment you have to do this manually from time to time in a fight, or just deal with the awkwardness.

This is a contradiction: "If the camera moves, your cursor doesn't move with it, it's always locked to the relative position of your character, rather than moving with the camera." If the camera moves but the cursor does not it would cause your character to also rotate. The cursor can't remain stationary on the screen while the camera rotates without also turning your character since your character always attempts to face the cursor. The only way to make it so the cursor doesn't change which direction you're facing is to also rotate the cursor with the camera (like it currently does).

 

[NachoDawg]

I think that if you are longing for a sort of camera-lock function then you're looking at the gameplay mechanics wrong

edit: and comparing them to other RPG games' of different genres.

 

[Ben Curtis]

This is a contradiction: "If the camera moves, your cursor doesn't move with it, it's always locked to the relative position of your character, rather than moving with the camera." If the camera moves but the cursor does not it would cause your character to also rotate. The cursor can't remain stationary on the screen while the camera rotates without also turning your character since your character always attempts to face the cursor. The only way to make it so the cursor doesn't change which direction you're facing is to also rotate the cursor with the camera (like it currently does).

Sorry still not explaining my thinking clearly! So the cursor wouldn't move relative to your character, ie. their arm position and orientation wouldn't change, but it would move on your screen. Basically the only thing my idea would do is to reposition the camera into a comfortable position automatically, just like you do yourself when playing at the moment, no other control or gameplay changes other than the A and D keys moving around the target rather than side to side (it could even work without that too).

For anyone afraid of erratic and jerky camera, something akin to the Vector3.SmoothDamp function in unity could be used to dampen the camera movements and move it only when the opponent position falls outside set boundaries.

I think that if you are longing for a sort of camera-lock function then you're looking at the gameplay mechanics wrong

edit: and comparing them to other RPG games' of different genres.

I think I've already demonstrated I know exactly how the gameplay mechanics work, and also hope I've explained (perhaps not with enough clarity) how a target-lock could add depth through allowing for better target-switching and flank manoeuvres, rather than be an oversimplification of the core combat. Unless I've missed out something which given the hours I have put into the game so far I don't think I have, all it would do is remove the annoyance of manually adjusting the camera and allow the player to focus on the fighting, without changing any core mechanic.

I'll stop arguing now, my idea is there and it does seem it might be a new idea based on what I've read in the insider forum and on here. If it gets tested out that would be awesome, if not I'm sure the game will still be awesome.

 

[Tony]

Sorry still not explaining my thinking clearly! So the cursor wouldn't move relative to your character, ie. their arm position and orientation wouldn't change, but it would move on your screen. Basically the only thing my idea would do is to reposition the camera into a comfortable position automatically, just like you do yourself when playing at the moment, no other control or gameplay changes other than the A and D keys moving around the target rather than side to side (it could even work without that too).

Okay, so if the cursor DOES rotate when the camera auto-adjusts (like it currently does to prevent your character from turning in a circle) then any time the camera auto-adjusts it's changing the location of the cursor, messing up your mouse inputs and ruining precision. Accurate mouse input requires a stationary camera because of this; can't have a randomly moving cursor in a game that requires accurate cursor control.

 

[Ben Curtis]

Okay, so if the cursor DOES rotate when the camera auto-adjusts (like it currently does to prevent your character from turning in a circle) then any time the camera auto-adjusts it's changing the location of the cursor, messing up your mouse inputs and ruining precision. Accurate mouse input requires a stationary camera because of this; can't have a randomly moving cursor in a game that requires accurate cursor control.

I'm not sure I follow why you feel that would be an issue.

The camera would reorientate yes if the opponent exceeded the parameters of the target lock area. Your cursor would drift off to the left if the camera rotated right, but under pretty much every circumstance you'd move the cursor with the opponent/camera, just like you move it with your opponent naturally at the moment to keep a guard up. You can still see which way your character is facing anyway, and would know where the cursor is.

Do a little experiment right now, imagine your screen is the enemy, your mouse is you, put your hand in front of the mouse and imagine it's the cursor and your eyes are the camera. Swing your head around to track the screen as it 'moves'. Having just done that myself, I really don't think you'd lose sight of the cursor, and there's no lack in precision because now moving the cursor in a certain direction always swings it in a certain way as the camera pivots around the player, allowing you to develop your moves with muscle memory and not even really needing to look at the cursor. Your opponent is always in front of you, leaving you to focus on the fight.

Still don't think it would be a bad idea to test it at least, in games you never know for real if control schemes work until they are prototyped and user tested because everyone plays differently. If this specific system already has and it didn't work then fair enough!

 

[nrage]

So the camera constantly adjusts and repositions so that the opponent is always dead center in front of you. The cursor is still free, you can still move it around and it can even reorientate your character along with it, but maybe your head should stay on the opponent.

If the camera moves, your cursor doesn't move with it, it's always locked to the relative position of your character, rather than moving with the camera. At the moment you have to do this manually from time to time in a fight, or just deal with the awkwardness.

I am not 100% clear on what you mean here. So.. the camera is locked on an opponent and they are center screen, you have the cursor on the opponents head. They strafe (screen left) and the camera rotates to the left to track them, where is the cursor now? On their head, or to the (screen) right of their head?

I think you mean the latter, right? As the former would cause your character to rotate left to follow the cursor.

So, because the camera is tracking the opponent they are still center screen but the cursor shifts right on the screen and if you do nothing it will eventually reach the right hand side of the screen, right? Or rather, reach the point you mention where the target lock 'breaks' freeing the camera.

Have I got that right?