Syllabear3
Member
I have had several life problems, spine problems and etc. I cant remember things and i think i have awful blood flood to my brain.
Most frustrating experience I've ever had in 20 years of gaming lol
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Midcal9
Member
Go to the doctor and then ask him if he thinks you are a mentally deficient, clinical moron. I personally doubt it, you seem to be capable of expressing yourself in an organized and coherent manner, so far at least.
Anyways, this game really does seem to need a proper map, or at least an option to have it for those with a very bad sense of direction.
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Syllabear3
Member
I do have a terrible sense of direction and since this third person game you can turn your camera 360 you obviously get lost. Unless you leave check marks with items you can easily find around, like bottles, scrolls, shirts, pants etc.
If you still dont want to do that you got maps around internet and here.
But let it be for those who love to be lost and find their way out.
Years ago ive been dreaming for something like a labyrinth and finally got it. There is no reason to crap it now with maps.
I havent feel this imersed in a game for a loooooong time. Like really enjoying every step, looking for something every corner, defeating enemies etc.
If you still dont want to do that you got maps around internet and here.
But let it be for those who love to be lost and find their way out.
Years ago ive been dreaming for something like a labyrinth and finally got it. There is no reason to crap it now with maps.
I havent feel this imersed in a game for a loooooong time. Like really enjoying every step, looking for something every corner, defeating enemies etc.
Midcal9
Member
Can't wait for a map mod for exanima.
IQ is only one part of intelligence anyway, it is not a measuring stick for how smart a person is. I don't think you're close to 80 IQ anyway but those tests only measure some parts of intelligence. So for example, a football world class player may suck in intellectual stuff but he is genius at football, genius at reading the flow of the game, and so on. So there are high-level brain activities going on in his brain but of a different kind.
Midcal9
Member
IQ and the g factor actually ARE THE measuring sticks. As for Football players being somehow very smart despite not actually having the required hardware, well, I'd assume that almost all average people are capable of learning the so called flow of the game if they are interested in investing a lot of time in it. What separetes the football player from an average football fan is training and athleticism.
The same goes for Exanima for example, I can learn how to play it and get a sense of the game in general, its atmosphere and mechanics but I do not posses the necessary characteristics to be its developer. In this case it would be IT related stuff which requires both intelligence and practice.
Oh, really?
To continue with the example of a professional football player, there is much more to playing than simple physicality. A football player has to make split-second decisions at less than a moment's notice, they have to keep a mental hold on their position on the pitch, many mental tasks that someone without the experience couldn't make. In many cases they don't seem smart or score highly in IQ tests because they've developed their footballing talent at the expense of education.
And to mirror your statement, everyone has the potential to learn how to develop a game like Exanima. Why can any random person learn to play like a professional footballer but magically cannot learn to develop a game like Exanima? Seems to me that all you did here was special pleading.
To continue with the example of a professional football player, there is much more to playing than simple physicality. A football player has to make split-second decisions at less than a moment's notice, they have to keep a mental hold on their position on the pitch, many mental tasks that someone without the experience couldn't make. In many cases they don't seem smart or score highly in IQ tests because they've developed their footballing talent at the expense of education.
And to mirror your statement, everyone has the potential to learn how to develop a game like Exanima. Why can any random person learn to play like a professional footballer but magically cannot learn to develop a game like Exanima? Seems to me that all you did here was special pleading.
Midcal9
Member
As well as a car driver, therefore all car drivers are unrecognized formula 1 racers.
"And to mirror your statement, everyone has the potential to learn how to develop a game like Exanima. Why can any random person learn to play like a professional footballer but magically cannot learn to develop a game like Exanima? Seems to me that all you did here was special pleading."
No, not anyone has a potential to become a programmer or a content creator, it takes a certain IQ level and a number of certain underlying intelligence characteristics (cognitive profile) such as object assembly, mazes, digit span, coding and arithmetic. The same goes for those who come up with concept art, not every person is capable of creating it either. Moreover, I never said that anyone can become a professional football-player or learn to play like one. You can't learn it, not only does it take effort, it takes talent. You need to have a fit body and you ought to be precise with it. Imo it takes a rare case of Utopian Egalitarian to believe such nonsense.
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Syllabear3
Member
Well... to be honest i allways thought iq is NOT everything. Peoples qualities are way to wide...
The point here is that if you really enjoy the game, you wil find your way. Things like a map when you have repeated the first act like 50 times is not necesary. I can do the whole first act going through all three paths, i know it as well as my hands palm. Even knowing what enemies i will find.
I really think people is just too lazy or just dont really enjoy the game, and in order to enjoy it are making excuses and complaining about making it easier.
I remember a few players that were genuinelly bad at one game ive been playing a lot, but they liked it so much that they just kept playing and they eventually find their way to make it work. Be boosting their qualities with x weapon or making y tactic to cover their weaknesses.
I think this game is very flexible... you are not smart? Use brute force or skills to go through. You are not skilled? Avoid battles, make a tactic to cover your weak points. Examples would be me and my bad memory (at this point i just think i remember things that i care), where i have repeated the maps so many times that i could remember them. Four act is an example that you dont really need to be that skilled to defeat certain big guy running out there... using the powers of your brain you can realise that you can:
The real problem is that if you are not smart neither skilled... a rat kid, then you shouldnt be playing games at all. If you want a nice story read a book or watch a movie.
The point here is that if you really enjoy the game, you wil find your way. Things like a map when you have repeated the first act like 50 times is not necesary. I can do the whole first act going through all three paths, i know it as well as my hands palm. Even knowing what enemies i will find.
I really think people is just too lazy or just dont really enjoy the game, and in order to enjoy it are making excuses and complaining about making it easier.
I remember a few players that were genuinelly bad at one game ive been playing a lot, but they liked it so much that they just kept playing and they eventually find their way to make it work. Be boosting their qualities with x weapon or making y tactic to cover their weaknesses.
I think this game is very flexible... you are not smart? Use brute force or skills to go through. You are not skilled? Avoid battles, make a tactic to cover your weak points. Examples would be me and my bad memory (at this point i just think i remember things that i care), where i have repeated the maps so many times that i could remember them. Four act is an example that you dont really need to be that skilled to defeat certain big guy running out there... using the powers of your brain you can realise that you can:
lock it in a room or lure it into that black hole.
The real problem is that if you are not smart neither skilled... a rat kid, then you shouldnt be playing games at all. If you want a nice story read a book or watch a movie.
Midcal9
Member
Yes, IQ and G factor asses your brain's processing power, basically. There a lot of subtypes IQ tests have but overall, that's what it boils down to. There are also personalty traits at play but it's better to have a higher IQ regardless, if anything it will help you to procrastinate better or allow you to find ways to earn money even if you are lazy. It gives you more options. Anyways..
The game is flexible in ways people are used to, even in DS you're supposed to kill everything in the beginning. Moreover, the game doesn't talk to the player which is usually seen as laziness on the side of the devs these days. I remember talking to my friend about games in general, telling him that most games have unrealstic weapons, crazy psychedelic color scheme since WOW, that cancer, or that they are not challenging, have zero atmosphere, no game play where it feels like you're just flying camera. People don't get that, they think most triple A titles are good and that's how it is. Disagreeing equals bitching.
My message is this, games have been hopelessly dumbed down, they are wacky now. Look at Dishonored franchise for example, Arkane studios which produced gems like Arx Fatalis and my all time fav Dark Messiah decided to make a game which attempts to make itself look serious and has cartoon-like graphics. Nothing in it looks real at all, even sunlight and walls. And yet people just lick it all up. It's all about least intelligent common denominator with money these days, sell them some dumb shiet and make a buck. We are the leftovers of the bygone age. We are the living past. At least for now. I sincerely hope Exanima will be finished and that they will release Sui before 2020...
Okay, I'm getting annoyed now. You not only move the goalposts in a debate (first saying you can learn to think like a professional footballer --> claiming you didn't), but you claim that IQ is everything when it comes to intelligence. I've already shown you that this is not the case - there are more factors to intelligence than mere IQ. Emotional intelligence, for example? Ever heard of that?
So much shitting on Dishonored too. I find your attitude quite small-minded. The game has a great story, gameplay mechanics and is challenging at the highest difficulty levels - it's a solid representative of its style of game. You're panicking about "dumbed down games" when games like Exanima are still being produced. And who is to say that Exanima is the only modern era game that's not dumbed down? That is literally just your opinion.
So much shitting on Dishonored too. I find your attitude quite small-minded. The game has a great story, gameplay mechanics and is challenging at the highest difficulty levels - it's a solid representative of its style of game. You're panicking about "dumbed down games" when games like Exanima are still being produced. And who is to say that Exanima is the only modern era game that's not dumbed down? That is literally just your opinion.
Midcal9
Member
Never said you could learn to play like a professional. This is what I said "I'd assume that almost all average people are capable of learning the so called flow of the game if they are interested in investing a lot of time in it." Learning the flow of the game means being able to asses the situation, see what kind of tactics the teams are using, what might happen next etc, it's an abstract and theatrical form of knowledge, not practical one. Being a hardcore football fan who knows all ins and out of the game does not equal being a good football player.
You did not, you linked to a webmd page which is a total garbage, I've also already told you what IQ and G factor is, and yes I've heard about the so called emotional intelligence, it's pseudoscience.
No, it is you who is obviously small minded, instead of letting me know why you like Dishonored you have decided to call me small minded because I said mean things about your favorite game. And yes, woohoo Captain Obvious, everything I say is just Literally muh opinion! Woah, what an insight! I di actually play in the first Dishonred and yes I do dislike both the storyline and the overall art style. For one I have no interest in being a function of someone lese, in this case the empress, or using someone else's powers and be in debt to that entity which in turn watches over me and judges everyyy step of mine. Or have a lot of different weapons at my disposal but be guided/directed/steered by The Game Mechanics not to kill ANYONE and play as a pacifist thief in order to achieve The Best Ending, cuz evul rats and stuff.... Game has a very strong accent on duality in terms on how it judges the players actions, it's good vs evil, bad performance vs good performance (in regerds to stealth and pacificism being regarded as apex of good performance) when in reality I don't recognizee such distinctions when they are defined that way. IE I literally, LITERALLY dislike the game for what it is. Also TF2 style graphics. Garbage.
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gugand
Member
Nowadays i enjoy action games only at maximun difficult level. The lower difficulty levels usually are done for whom don't like put effort on games. That is not a dumbing down cause of a good challenging at highest difficult level. The producers try to maximize the selling copies and that is why they want any player able to finish the game.
About Dishonored. It is one of my favourite games. Not cause of the graphic style that is something very subjective. Not cause of the story and big choices. It is a very good game cause of exploration and the very high number of options to achieve every step in a mission.
About Dishonored. It is one of my favourite games. Not cause of the graphic style that is something very subjective. Not cause of the story and big choices. It is a very good game cause of exploration and the very high number of options to achieve every step in a mission.
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Midcal9
Member
That is correct, it does have intricate maps and as well as number of options but I personally find it hard to appreciate if the game has little to no immersion for me. But regardless of what you may think about dishonored you have to admit that Arkane did a 180 on their choice of style and theme in regards to their previous titles. What they chose as their new trademark doesn't appeal to me at all. As for dumbing down of games, even those games that are challenging these days require not as much effort as a whole but good reaction, especially in realm of FPS or Bethesda's games.
What you mean is that games nowadays don't require as much learning, there's not much of a learning curve. Well I can only point you towards Mount & Blade Warband (though it is from 2008 or smth) and Bannerlord which is a sequel to Warband, coming out sometime this year probably. That game has a huge learning curve, and it's just one of many.
Dishonored isn't my favorite game, but I think you're shitting on it just for the sake of doing so. You obviously want to use the game as a hobby horse in order to make some inane point (that games nowadays are not hard? Then Dishonored is actually a bad example - if you thought you knew all there was to the gameplay, think again.)
You can appreciate Exanima and SG for the games that they are without shitting on everything else.
Dishonored isn't my favorite game, but I think you're shitting on it just for the sake of doing so. You obviously want to use the game as a hobby horse in order to make some inane point (that games nowadays are not hard? Then Dishonored is actually a bad example - if you thought you knew all there was to the gameplay, think again.)
You can appreciate Exanima and SG for the games that they are without shitting on everything else.
Midcal9
Member
Most* games nowadays are less immersive, for me. Literally just my opinion fam. Many do not take themselves seriously by having loony psychedelic colors, weird and totally unrealistic body shapes etc. But there is also a certain change in the genres which has occurred, games no longer posses any romantic qualities and they tend to take place in here and now or in not so distant future. This bit is very subjective of course but I have enough post modern in my real life and I don't need any more hookers, drug lords, skyscrapers, hackers, 21st century profanity and plain psychos. A few games featuring those would be fine and fun, but you get really bored and fed up with that stuff after your sixth or eighth encounter.
It seems like in general and on average game developers have started to put increasingly less effort into creating tangible and immersive environments in their games, it's as if games have less or no sense of being. As for me shitting, you've been disagreeing with me all along, did I tell you to stop shitting on me or my opinions? Feel free to love Dishonored, I can't force you to dislike it. I meant what I said, this is not trolling. I don't like it when guards have neanderthal heads in a game which presents itself as some kind of dramatic and mostly tragic 19th century novel.
It seems like in general and on average game developers have started to put increasingly less effort into creating tangible and immersive environments in their games, it's as if games have less or no sense of being. As for me shitting, you've been disagreeing with me all along, did I tell you to stop shitting on me or my opinions? Feel free to love Dishonored, I can't force you to dislike it. I meant what I said, this is not trolling. I don't like it when guards have neanderthal heads in a game which presents itself as some kind of dramatic and mostly tragic 19th century novel.
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Well intelligence is relative anyway and depends entirely on what you're trying to apply it to.
More games now present really detailed visual worlds and characters, but by trying to match/imitate reality (because technically it's more feasible) loses the focus on a clear and distinct design.
Any time I hear the term 'appeal to a wider audience' I grow cautious of the risk of diluting the design and cohesiveness for the sake of 'more.'
I applaud Bare Mettle (also Grim Dawn devs Crate among others) for sticking to their vision and design principles at the cost of 'appeal to more.'
I believe a part of this is to do with technical constraints. When constrained, designers are focused on getting more out of what they have. If the graphics and processing power is low more emphasis is on creating immersion in the story, setting/theme and actions. Restrictions on computing power means interactions and logic must be more intentional. Restrictions in sound capability means soundtracks match the content or atmosphere more specifically to not break immersion, etc.
More games now present really detailed visual worlds and characters, but by trying to match/imitate reality (because technically it's more feasible) loses the focus on a clear and distinct design.
Any time I hear the term 'appeal to a wider audience' I grow cautious of the risk of diluting the design and cohesiveness for the sake of 'more.'
I applaud Bare Mettle (also Grim Dawn devs Crate among others) for sticking to their vision and design principles at the cost of 'appeal to more.'
Midcal9
Member
Not really, it's only relative to how it is measured and what is taken for the standard of measure. I see a trend here with people using fairly fallacious talking points from the early oughts when certain "intellectuals" started to belittle the concept for their own ideological agenda. Let me tell you this, your brain is a physical object, as such it has certain objective characteristics which include its processing power when applied to certain, objective tasks. The results are also objectively measurable. How they are measured is in fact "arbitrary". The same goes for your ruler btw, miles and kilometers are arbitrary concepts and yet they relate to real physical reality. Questioning their validity would not be very reasonable to say the least.
I agree, that is pretty much what is going on here and I don't expect the overall quality of the games to get any better any time soon. If the whole sui generis project will fail me gonna get real sad...i might even cry a little.
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What you said in no way disproves the fact the intelligence is multi-faceted and is not constrained to mathemathical prowess, visualization of 3D objects, or anything like that. What people are saying is that you can be a math genius but a social retard. Or a social genius but a math retard. In simple terms.
Midcal9
Member
Being a social retard is not directly linked to intelligence, let's say someone who has autism or is suffering from some kind of anxiety disorder could be very intelligent, apart perhaps from Verbal IQ. But even someone who has a high one might still have certain personality type which would make social contact more challenging for him. I'm fairly certain you have met plenty of stupid people who are extremely talkative and socially well adjusted. That does not mean they are intelligent though.
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