NPC Reactions/Behaviour in Sui Generis

[Roryn]

So I was wondering.. It's clear that different NPCs will react differently to you and what you do, but will how you look, or how other NPCs look for that matter, affect the way the NPCs perceive and behave towards you (or other NPCs?)

To use an elementary example, would a bandit be more likely to attack a person wearing cloth or even basic leather armour than he would be to attack someone wearing mail or plate armour? That'll probably be the case, now that I think about it, but how about characters' physiques affecting their behaviour? Would that bandit be more likely to attack an old and frail looking character than a larger and more robust person? Or how about if you were wearing some good strong chain armour beneath a coat or something? Would the bandit react to you as though you were wearing the mail, or only behave according to what he can see? And what about the grade of your equipment? Would a rusted helm and breastplate be less intimidating that a shiny, newer one? I know it certainly would in real life. This is just one "bandit" example, but it could apply to all characters, like how likely a potential hireling would be to follow you for whatever reason. Surely if you look well-armed, he'd think there was less a chance for him to die.

There's a lot of "what ifs" In the paragraph above, and I apologise if these questions are over-nuanced (if that's not a term... it is now.). Considering the intelligence of the devs, I'm sure that everything within reason will be properly implemented, but nevertheless I thought this would be a good topic for community discussion (Couldn't find a similar thread by searching, I apologise if there is one).

Also, I think I remember reading about a reputation system.. I wonder if that will also be based somewhat on your appearances as well as your actions.

 

[Scully]

It would certainly be nice if enemies actually valued their own lives. We already have a point system associated with armour for the arena, which could be further expanded upon to influence how likely someone is to attack your character.

 

[Roryn]

It would certainly be nice if enemies actually valued their own lives. We already have a point system associated with armour for the arena, which could be further expanded upon to influence how likely someone is to attack your character.

Yeah they confirmed that characters in Sui Generis, and possibly at least some characters even in exanima, will care about their lives.

That's cool that you mention the arena.. I always imagined NPCs would find and aim for the greatest threat to them. I didn't even think about NPCs evaluating who might be a weaker and more lucrative target in a fight! It would be a great improvement over the current placeholder of them attacking anyone whose stray swing gets too close.

 

[Achul]

As with many things the whole concept of Arena play, willing individuals risking their lives for a few coin...it does not make much sense. So while I like the idea of maybe aiming for a weakened warrior who has a lot of good armor to loot I do not think one could create too much of a logic behind whom anyone should fight, whether to save their lives or not. I mean some slave forced to fight in a pit might pick a weak target, someone out looking for glory might pick the greatest warrior in the arena. But what really motivates entities in Exanima?

 

[Roryn]

As with many things the whole concept of Arena play, willing individuals risking their lives for a few coin...it does not make much sense. So while I like the idea of maybe aiming for a weakened warrior who has a lot of good armor to loot I do not think one could create too much of a logic behind whom anyone should fight, whether to save their lives or not. I mean some slave forced to fight in a pit might pick a weak target, someone out looking for glory might pick the greatest warrior in the arena. But what really motivates entities in Exanima?

Well, I suppose self-preservation would be first and foremost for most characters you'd encounter. Perhaps Exanima isn't the place for such deep motivations beyond this -- though I'm certain Sui Generis will be.

 

[bobchaos]

I don't think implementing something such would be that difficult assuming the NPCs are as complex as the dev would like. They describe NPCs with goals and dreams and whatnot that influence their behavior. Suppose you have high value gear, a character that is, say, motivated mostly by greed, would see you as a prime target, possibly modified by his own gear's value based on how highly he rates self preservation. Assume he is also well equipped, he might decide it's worth his effort to try and strike you down. Conversely, if he is wearing cloths and wielding a dagger, he may just decide it's not worth risking possible decapitation at the hand of your imposing 2 handed battleaxe Hey, maybe he's a foolhardy idiot with a massive ego who'll try to get into a fistfight with you at the first whiff of an insult, regardless of the fact you're sporting enough obviously magical gear to explode the building by snapping your finger.

Another NPC, motivated by living a long and peaceful life, might instead become wary and act in a more guarded fashion: all that armor and arsenal can only spell trouble, best give that guy a wide berth!

It would be a simple extension of the intended NPC behavior system, just one more factor influencing their decision making tree. That system however is likely to be quite challenging to code, I'm curious to see how much of their goals BM can achieve.

All that said, I think your general appearance should be one of the top influences on behavior right after personal motivations. It's just the human thing to do to judge a book by it's cover. You see a guy walking around in full plate, you assume he's a rich knight well versed in combat (while he could very well be a lowly bandit that dug the right grave!). You're also less likely to get in a bar fight with a 6'6", 250 pounds of muscle gorilla if you're standing at 5'2", 120 pounds wet

 

[MegaFarinato]

Dont forget about the social repercusions of what you look like! Stuff like casts and social hierarchy, economic status, and willingness to even speak to. 10/10 immersive, would immerse again.

 

[ZaratanCho]

Even the undead in story mode at the start value their lives.

 

[bobchaos]

Even the undead in story mode at the start value their lives.

Unlife*

Unrelated note: I really need to stop chasing them through unexplored corridors :/

 

[Roryn]

Unlife*

Unrelated note: I really need to stop chasing them through unexplored corridors :/

That takes up 80 percent of my time in story mode these days haha

That, and trawling around level 4 trying to find Sir, so that I can slay him with my gigantic knight character and then jump into the pit of doom.. Repeatedly.

But going back to what I said before, I still wonder about how NPCs would react to you if you were wearing CONCEALED armour or even weapons (eg. chain armour underneath a coat). I imagine they'd react to only what they could see (i.e not the chain shirt), but since it makes noise when you move sometimes, I now wonder if the more perceptive NPCs would be able to HEAR that you're wearing armour, and behave according to that knowledge. I'm not sure, but that sounds like pretty advanced stuff to me, not that I know the first thing about making games.

 

[bobchaos]

It's pretty hard to hide armor, like you point out, chain is pretty noisy, and so is plate. The devs even bothered to add proper sound effects when you bump into stuff wearing different types of armor. Leather armor is no better: Padded and studded leather armors are too thick to be hidden under other garments and would typically be worn as the outermost layer of armor, and basic leather clothing would have been common and unremarkable in a medieval society. Even modern ballistic vests are usually given away by the rigid plates that make the chest look all wrong if you're paying attention (if you're in the US, I'd avoid staring at a cop to verify, they're triggerhappy over there XD )

Instead, they could make "discreet" or "concealable" a property of certain armor sets, making them less conspicuous or something such? Even so, I like the idea of having to pay attention to what you wear.

Think of a scenario like this: You walk in town with full armor, town folks make themselves scarce and hide indoors. Come back without the fancy armor, they come out and play, maybe one explains they've been terrorized by the local lord who keeps sending armored knights to collect some extra taxes. While you're enjoying a chat with the farmers, the thief guild shows up and tries to steal all your gold and you have to fight them off, which would not be any sort of a challenge while you're wearing your armor, but you had to take it off to talk to the locals!

The guy constantly wearing full plate would never get that little bit of storytelling, and a guy with "concealed" armor would probably not be threatened by thieves, taking some of the fun away. I feel that the best way to get some good stories out of it is to make armor and general appearance a big factor in NPC decision making trees and by having the armor's "value" visible for anyone nearby (and given the isometric camera and fairly short visual range, I'd say anyone that's drawn on screen should be able to tell exactly what you're wearing).

While were at it, I'd make it so you can't just put on and remove armor by dragging it on the paperdoll: strapping plates on is a time consuming business, lots of straps to adjust. It would be both realistic and prevent game exploits such as triggering the above-mentioned thief guild attack and immediately armoring up for the fight.

Anyhow, back to your point, I'm not convinced there should be such a thing as concealable armor, and if so, it should be limited to certain specific armor sets. Just an opinion tho, it really all boils down to how it influences storytelling and events as far as I'm concerned.

Final thought: I'd split armor "value" into 2 different statistics: protection value (as assessed by an observer) and monetary value. Fancy cloths may not protect you from harm but they indicate social status, which would again influence NPC behavior. The thieves from my example up there wouldn't bother attacking a peasant, but a suede wearing character probably has a thicker purse!

 

[Roryn]

I agree with you on just about everything, especially about the paperdoll (which I hear they're reworking anyway), and when I meant "concealed" I was only thinking about that once example I gave, actually lol. Chain shirts or vests underneath cloth tunics or coats are the only things that I imagine could be concealed right now, and they do sometimes trick me in the arena. A lot of the time, I actually need to hit an adept or, occasionally, expert enemy to verify if they're actually wearing chain armour or not, since their coats almost always cover it up.