"Obstructive/Competitive questing" on LAN-MP, possible?

[Vold]

Recently, after reading the Development Update#2 and knowing that LAN multiplayer is planned; I've realized about something that I think would be very intresting and I have not seen in other games, although I am not entirely certain if the game will allow it:

Since the story will be dynamic even while in multiplayer, not only we will be able to do quests cooperatively but also obstructively!

Is that going to be possible?, if so... WoW!




I'm done editing the thread. ;p

 

[Tony]

Yep, that's the idea! In regard to triggering events everyone in the game world is treated the same, regardless of whether they are a human player or NPC. The freedom to make your own choices and do what you please is what Bare Mettle considers to be actual role-playing; not being forced to follow a heavily scripted and very limited path. This means it should be possible to help or hinder other human players as you please.

 

[Vold]

Mind-

Spoiler

This is what I call, PvP!

 

[Fawz]

The closest recent implementation of a similar mechanic in an open world RPG would be Divinity: Original Sin. They make unshackled co-op work really well in an open world non-linear story focused RPG. You should give it a try

 

[Vold]

I played D:OS upon release, the coop questing was fun indeed; although the story seemed partly-linear to me and the world was highly restricted by the level. Nevertheless, I enjoyed it.

But, what I am really looking forward with LAN in SG is the following (using the same example of the Development Update #2):

A lord who suffers from heart disease has a dearly loved daughter as only heir. A neighbouring lord has ambitions to marry one of his sons to the first lord's daughter, but they are not on good terms and the union is repeatedly refused. The second lord hires some thugs to kidnap the daughter. He also has the local apothecary's stores destroyed so that he can no longer produce a rare heart medicine. The first lord will fall ill and the second lord's son will carry out a daring rescue of the daughter, thus securing his place at her side.

Immediately we see various opportunities for you to be hired or otherwise employed, if you are a likely candidate. You might be asked to kidnap the daughter, to search for and rescue her, to find more of the rare herb, to urgently deliver new medicine to the stricken lord. But just because you were hired this doesn't mean you'll do what you were asked. You might simply report the kidnapping plot, you might demand your own ransom for the daughter, you might destroy the herb rather than retrieve it.

While you might indeed not be tasked with any such thing, you may still witness these events as they transpire and alter the conditions that guide them. As an example, you could steal the thugs' weapons in their sleep, thereby delaying the ambush. Perhaps later you'll witness them looking for new weapons.

In LAN both players may have different objectives for their character; so, while one of them tries to kidnap the daughter, the other one may be asked to protect her; which may end up with both players fighting each other or joining forces kidnapping or protecting the daughter...

Furthermore, in a larger scale each player may be part of different plots that clash (directly or indirectly) in order to archive their main goals. This is extraordinary, IMO.

 

[Vold]

Aww, man I can't wait to try the dynamic behavior and personality of NPCs in the prelude... I... must... endure... it.

 

[Hyomoto]

Madoc has shown he is a very capable and inventive developer. What the engine will be capable of is anyone's guess, but the weight of the game increases with observers. It's better to temper expectations and be amazed than to speculate wildly and be disappointed (not sure Sui Generis CAN, but take some weight off their shoulders at least!). Otherwise you might as well sign up for the Universe Project.

Looks a lot different once it gets put into production, doesn't it?

Who knows what it will end as, but you can already see ambition being heavily tempered, it will likely become even more so (StarForge anyone?) before it's over. I believe this is exactly why Madoc said he'd rather do a small reactive world than reach for infinity and have it be mundane.

 

[Tony]

Madoc has shown he is a very capable and inventive developer. What the engine will be capable of is anyone's guess, but the weight of the game increases with observers. It's better to temper expectations and be amazed than to speculate wildly and be disappointed (not sure Sui Generis CAN, but take some weight off their shoulders at least!). Otherwise you might as well sign up for the Universe Project.

Looks a lot different once it gets put into production, doesn't it?

Who knows what it will end as, but you can already see ambition being heavily tempered, it will likely become even more so (StarForge anyone?) before it's over. I believe this is exactly why Madoc said he'd rather do a small reactive world than reach for infinity and have it be mundane.

I agree with the philosophy of setting your expectations low and being pleasantly surprised as opposed to expecting too much and being disappointed with the end result. However, concerning Sui Generis, Madoc started out showing us very basic videos of his game engine during the Kickstarter campaign - things have only improved since. Considering Madoc showed us the actual game in an early state, and not some misleading CGI trailer (like many developers do to promote their game), I had realistic expectations of what the actual gameplay would be like.

After playing the combat alphas/beta I was not in the least bit disappointed. On the contrary, I was rather shocked with how much improvement had been made; the AI, the animations, the visuals, the smooth performance were all much better than I expected them to be for alpha/beta versions. As you previously said, Madoc has shown that he is a very capable and inventive developer so I have no doubt this trend will continue.

 

[lvk]

@Hyomoto The Universe Project video seems to be just one step away from a guy that came to Kickstarter asking for $1M USD, admitting he had no concept whatsoever, and that he was going to use the money to hire people that were actually capable of designing and making a game, thus having it be 'made by and for the community'.

Not having anything designed didn't stop him from offering predefined amounts of in-game currency as campaign rewards, however. It was amazing.

 

[Holy.Death]

To be honest I'd rather see co-op rather over pvp. I've found pvp games to be extremely toxic and exploitative, with little regard to the fellow players (the ones who make pvp possible in the first place), while co-op tends to reinforce good emotions and cooperation between players to overcome odds together. At least that's how I experienced it wherever I played, including the board games.

On the other hand I can see the charm of people - actual players - doing their own quests simultaneously and interacting with other players at the same time. What if people would not know who is the player and who is the NPC? I'd find this much more interesting, because each NPC could be player and vice versa (except that you can usually tell that apart from behavior or names and such).

 

[Parco]

you will see both coop and pvp at the same time in this game(if they are successful implementing lan), one moment youre helping your friend and the next you backstab him. this is after all Real Life simulator - medieval drunken edition

 

[Holy.Death]

Perhaps, but such backstabbing can be destructive in long term, because people will expect being betrayed, so they'll turn on anyone who's claiming they want to help them. There should be clear and strong incentives to cooperate, otherwise I can imagine game going too much into DayZ, where people kill others on sight for survival.

Note that (serial) murderers, traitors and other disruptive elements are punished even amongst criminals for this very reason: self-protection. It's how society (and with it - social interactions) can exist in the first place.

 

[Parco]

dayz is a mmo, with alot random people ofc there will be more insecurity. SG will most likely only have lan so you will be playing with people you know. one thing that will give a strong incentive to cooperate in this game is that this game will be quite unforgiving, if you are acting alone and do one mistake then thats enough to die and loose everything, being together strengthens the survival rate. also this is a rpg, so having the ability to kill your friend for profit is a role that would suit my me :3

 

[Holy.Death]

Bare Mettle stated that they will look into expanding multiplayer component of the game after release, hence my concerns as I don't expect to play with other people via LAN.

 

[Vold]

If SG ends up supporting multiplayer (other than LAN), from what I have read it will be something similar to battle.net; and I imagine that like an extension of LAN where you will be able to invite others to play along with your or against you in the same realm.
Don't expect it to be an MMO or anything close.

As @Parco Folgore said, there will be more incentives for you to play cooperatively with other players than against them, but eventually someone will be able to take advantage of given situation that makes someone vulnerable.
Also, due to the dynamic story system of SG, you will be able to do something that does not work in any other game (AFAIK), based on the different goals of each player there will be a chance for them to end up fighting each other based on the objectives of different plots or events.