One Handed Weapons Weaker

[Iscandar]

In this latest patch, one handed weapons can't even hold a candle to the two handed swords, which also happened to be buffed. I don't see any reason why you'd use sword and shield rather than a two handed sword. The swing speed is roughly the same despite the two hander having greater damage, reach, and I'd argue balance. Once one learns how to attack around shields with any two-hander, shield users actually become easier and more predictable than either two handers and polearms, despite their supposed role as defensive kings.

There's a few things wrong with one handed weapons, and it stems from the animation change. The RtL swing has been tampered with recently, making the blade impact the enemy's body diagonally, rather than straight on as it was before. This makes it more difficult than it needs to be to score a solid hit. There's less force going to the enemy and it's more difficult to avoid hitting or entangling in the enemy's weapon. There's also less effective reach and time-to-hit given the odd angle.

One handed weapons are less viable than polearms and swords now, while they were about equal in the last patch. They feel just awful to use now. No manner of user practice is going to fix this. I feel this recent improvement for one handers was a step back.

 

[zhuliks]

I dont know, with that fast counter after block skill, 1 handed sword cuts through zombies like a charm, they dont even have time to block. Didnt play arena for quie a time though, traps are too fun.

 

[Murf]

In this latest patch, one handed weapons can't even hold a candle to the two handed swords, which also happened to be buffed. .....
One handed weapons are less viable than polearms and swords now, while they were about equal in the last patch. They feel just awful to use now. No manner of user practice is going to fix this. I feel this recent improvement for one handers was a step back.

I disagree, I am much more proficient with 1h and shield than I am with 2h weapons.

 

[RobG]

@Iscandar I kinda agree with you, one handed/shield was always a 'go to' for me prior to this patch, but now I always just go for a 2h weapon, I was actually pretty good with a sword and shield before the patch, but really struggled to regain my form with it after this latest one. I think though that once we can actually spec into shield skills (and potentially stances) this will maybe balance out a bit better, I have also watched Madoc stream where he powered though the campaign with the 1h sword in this patch which made me think I just need more time to adjust to the animation changes.
I know what you mean though I'm almost tempted to go the other way though and say 2h weapons could maybe use a little bit of a nerf because its very easy to kill things with a 2h sword as it stands.

No manner of user practice is going to fix this

I'm not sure I agree with you on this point though watching Madoc with the 1h like I said kinda convinced me it is possible to get back to the same level as previous patches but I personally havn't really tried that much what with 2h weapons being so strong atm. I agree on the whole though and personally, I am holding out for the shield skill tree to make it a more viable option.

 

[Orlacktherof]

Of the 1 handed weapons, It seems that blunt weapons got easier to use, but the 1 handed swords and cleaver(You keep striking with the flat of the blade) got destroyed. I did find that without using the shield I did better, but not good enough. The battle-axe and hatchet might aswell be your torch now. I've found that using the using the rusty axe just got easier, I've actually found a use for a Bill.

 

[-Tim-]

In this latest patch, one handed weapons can't even hold a candle to the two handed swords, which also happened to be buffed. I don't see any reason why you'd use sword and shield rather than a two handed sword. The swing speed is roughly the same despite the two hander having greater damage, reach, and I'd argue balance. Once one learns how to attack around shields with any two-hander, shield users actually become easier and more predictable than either two handers and polearms, despite their supposed role as defensive kings.

There's a few things wrong with one handed weapons, and it stems from the animation change. The RtL swing has been tampered with recently, making the blade impact the enemy's body diagonally, rather than straight on as it was before. This makes it more difficult than it needs to be to score a solid hit. There's less force going to the enemy and it's more difficult to avoid hitting or entangling in the enemy's weapon. There's also less effective reach and time-to-hit given the odd angle.

One handed weapons are less viable than polearms and swords now, while they were about equal in the last patch. They feel just awful to use now. No manner of user practice is going to fix this. I feel this recent improvement for one handers was a step back.

I'm inclined to agree with you, but I do wonder: do you find that the 7th novice opponent (sword and board lady) and the 2nd expert opponent have gotten easier? In my experience, they're still as hard and risky to beat as ever. This might suggest that one-handed combat is still quite viable, if maybe harder to pull off.

On the whole though, my go-to weapons have been two-handed for more than 100 hours of play time, so I do think I agree. If only for the fact that blocking in this game is never a guaranteed way to avoid damage, whereas using your range advantage (which 2h weapons provide) to dodge attacks actually is.

 

[Iscandar]

I'm inclined to agree with you, but I do wonder: do you find that the 7th novice opponent (sword and board lady) and the 2nd expert opponent have gotten easier? In my experience, they're still as hard and risky to beat as ever. This might suggest that one-handed combat is still quite viable, if maybe harder to pull off.

On the whole though, my go-to weapons have been two-handed for more than 100 hours of play time, so I do think I agree. If only for the fact that blocking in this game is never a guaranteed way to avoid damage, whereas using your range advantage (which 2h weapons provide) to dodge attacks actually is.

I've gotten to the point where I can consistently defeat the expert arena naked using the rusty two handed sword. I can't even beat the expert arena with the well crafted one handed sword and shield. I played one handers and two handers an equal amount pre-patch, but I can't anymore. Two handed weapons are just better now. I wouldn't say nerf two handers, since two handers seemed a bit too slow before. I would say buff one handers though, to at least put them on par with two handers.

 

[Tony]

I've gotten to the point where I can consistently defeat the expert arena naked using the rusty two handed sword. I can't even beat the expert arena with the well crafted one handed sword and shield. I played one handers and two handers an equal amount pre-patch, but I can't anymore. Two handed weapons are just better now. I wouldn't say nerf two handers, since two handers seemed a bit too slow before. I would say buff one handers though, to at least put them on par with two handers.

The power of the right-to-left swing of one-handed swords was increased in the latest patch so they definitely are not weaker than before. Two-handed swords have more reach and generate more power than one-handed swords (they are wielded with both hands after all). Offensively two-handed swords are more capable than one-handed swords and this is functioning as intended. Because of this, one-handed swords will require more player skill to be proficient with them. However, one-handed swords have other benefits like being able to use the off hand to hold a torch or a shield. They also are smaller in size so you can fight in tighter quarters without getting your weapon stuck on objects or multiple opponents.

The devs do not want to balance every single weapon to have the exact same potential in every scenario; their goal is just the opposite: every weapon will have strengths and weaknesses and behave quite differently.

 

[Iscandar]

The power of the right-to-left swing of one-handed swords was increased in the latest patch so they definitely are not weaker than before.

Just how? I explained how it wasn't more powerful already. The swing hits at an angle, making it easier to block or entangle in the enemy's weapon, reducing the force of impact, effective reach and speed (given time to hit). I haven't seen any way it's more powerful.

Two-handed swords have more reach and generate more power than one-handed swords (they are wielded with both hands after all). Offensively two-handed swords are more capable than one-handed swords and this is functioning as intended. Because of this, one-handed swords will require more player skill to be proficient with them. However, one-handed swords have other benefits like being able to use the off hand to hold a torch or a shield. They also are smaller in size so you can fight in tighter quarters without getting your weapon stuck on objects or multiple opponents.

This is how it's supposed to be, but I don't feel that's how it is now. Two handers should definitely generate more power, but require space and distance to hit with full force. One handed weapons, however, can't even hit well up close now. If you try doing the RtL swing at close range, you'll either hit the enemy with the hilt for no damage, entangle in the enemy's defense, or hit with the less damaging part of the weapon. Before, one handers at close range would almost always hit with the damaging part of the blade and never tangle, often bypassing the enemy's guard if they weren't facing the blade. One handers punished two handers hard at close range, and this was perfectly fun and challenging. There was no reason to change this. The new animations just aren't as good for close range, which is completely counterintuitive given one handers are close range weapons...

The devs do not want to balance every single weapon to have the exact same potential in every scenario; their goal is just the opposite: every weapon will have strengths and weaknesses and behave quite differently.

When I said they were as powerful at each other, I meant that despite having different roles they could be used just as effectively and with unique playstyles. I definitely didn't mean apples should be become oranges, however, I wouldn't eat a rotten apple if the orange next to it is perfectly ripe. One handed weapons aren't even doing a good job at their own niche, while two handers can fill that niche and more. That's why I think one handers just aren't that good now.

 

[Nynuc]

All I ever use, Is a 1 handed sword, without a shield. I can tell you, it doesn't always seem close to fair. In my blood, sweat and tears of practice with the 1h sword, I can say the biggest flaw is the speed of the weapon. It is extremely slow, Especially the overhead attack. I think increasing the speed of the weapon, if even just a tiny bit, would increase the damage slightly, and also make it much more useful. As it is now, There seems to be little, or no difference in the speed of the 2h sword, and the 1h sword. that's at least how it feels to me. I'm working on a new video for 1h swords! it's gonna be pree sweet.

 

[Tony]

Just how? I explained how it wasn't more powerful already. The swing hits at an angle, making it easier to block or entangle in the enemy's weapon, reducing the force of impact, effective reach and speed (given time to hit). I haven't seen any way it's more powerful.

The animation tool that Madoc uses has a display option which actually shows the force generated while swinging the weapon. The new right-to-left attack animations (with one-handers) generate more force and power than the previous animations. They are literally more powerful. They also allow a higher chance of performing a draw cut with a one-handed sword instead of limply flailing about as before.

This is how it's supposed to be, but I don't feel that's how it is now. Two handers should definitely generate more power, but require space and distance to hit with full force. One handed weapons, however, can't even hit well up close now. If you try doing the RtL swing at close range, you'll either hit the enemy with the hilt for no damage, entangle in the enemy's defense, or hit with the less damaging part of the weapon. Before, one handers at close range would almost always hit with the damaging part of the blade and never tangle, often bypassing the enemy's guard if they weren't facing the blade. One handers punished two handers hard at close range, and this was perfectly fun and challenging. There was no reason to change this. The new animations just aren't as good for close range, which is completely counterintuitive given one handers are close range weapons...

I haven't experienced this at all. The only time I become entangled with my opponent is if I dash forward instead of taking a step (which would happen regardless of the animations). If I use proper footwork to manage the distance between the opponent then one-handed swords work great and are very effective at close range; much better than a two-handed sword since they don't get stuck on objects or multiple opponents as easily.

Do you perhaps have a video of the issue you're having so we can see what is happening? I've used a one-handed sword or machete for about 90% of the hundred or so dungeon runs I've done (before and after the patch) and have not had any issues other than user error. After the patch I can now defeat the dungeon completely naked using a one-handed weapon where as before doing so was almost certainly a death sentence.

When I said they were as powerful at each other, I meant that despite having different roles they could be used just as effectively and with unique playstyles. I definitely didn't mean apples should be become oranges, however, I wouldn't eat a rotten apple if the orange next to it is perfectly ripe. One handed weapons aren't even doing a good job at their own niche, while two handers can fill that niche and more. That's why I think one handers just aren't that good now.

Again, if you had a video of the issue perhaps it would be more clear for those who aren't experiencing the issue. The only way I've been able to reproduce the problem is if I physically run into the person(s) I'm fighting, which is completely unrelated.

 

[Madoc]

The new one handed attacks are better in every single way. RtLs generate more power, they cut more easily rather than just floppily whacking the target, they have a shorter wind up time, they don't make you stumble every time you attack as they did previously. The swings sometimes hit at an angle, just as they always have, the angle is randomised and always was. With the previous attacks stepping forward and attacking almost always caused you to attack weakly at ground level, something which no longer happens. Parrying is also much more reliable.

Prior to the update one handed weapons were unpredictable, clumsy and weak. Since the update I love playing with them as I can consistenly land powerful attacks instead of often weakly slapping at my opponents. Two handed weapons have also been significantly improved and I think the problem might be trying to compare the two. They require completely different play styles. Two handers are indeed more powerful, they have more reach and the range at which they are effective is broader. Two handers are definitely slower over all, even though technically they should not be. With one handers you need to be more precise but they are great, you can land a lot of "sneaky" hits, footwork is much important and it's essential to make proper use of steps as well as dashes due to the limited reach and its greater importance. None of this is new though. It would seem you've become too used to two handed weapons and are indeed comparing apples to oranges. You definitely can't carry the mindless swinging that works with two handers over to one handers.

One mistake I see a lot is people hitting too early in the swing. You can often get away with this with two handers because of the wide slow arcs but with one handers it's essential that you hit near the peak of the strike and not while your wrist is still bent backwards and you're winding up the swing as this will deliver no power. It seems like a very common bad habit to aim at the opponent with the reticle and then push it past them as you swing. This, with all weapons, is the exact opposite of what you should do, if you want to augment your RtLs you need to do it in the same way as you do LtRs, pull back and then towards your opponent. Moving your cursor from your opponent and then away will only make your hit weaker. With one handers especially you're much better off not trying to augment your strike at all then doing it wrong, a habit that might be hard to break when you're used to the wide arcs of 2 handed weapons. In general don't try to swing your little sword as if it was a tree trunk.

One thing I sometimes tell people to try to see the effects is using sideways stances. Keep your character already angled to the side rather than facing your opponent head-on and turn towards them as you swing. This also works well with diagonal steps and dashes.

 

[zhuliks]

Thanks for clearing it up Madoc, I was surprised myself how effective 1h swords are as i wrote above you can just stand still, block and riposte with a sword and torch and kill everything very fast. Swords now cut surprisingly well in close range.