The camera is my worst enemy

[Roshawn Terrell]

I am often finding the camera in this game is my worst enemy.

I really do think this game would play far better and be more immersive if it took more of a ground level view rather than the more top down view it normally has.

 

[CharliePow]

Tap spacebar to align the camera with your mouse. I usually tap it as soon as I've withdrawn from attacking. That way you can get the best of both worlds, almost feels like 3pp in Chivalry.

 

[Roshawn Terrell]

I already know about that mechanic, i still find the camera to still be very clunky even with that.

What i want is a camera that's centered onto my character, not floating off into the air disconnected from my character and its actions.

 

[Chase]

Quote from Madoc regarding OTS/third-person camera and character-relative WASD:

Spoiler

The issue is that character/cursor aligned WASD is counter-intuitive, especially when you are used to playing games where W is always "up". The character relative WASD may take some time to get used to but it is vastly superior in every single way. The game specifically uses a fixed camera from above over an OTS or first person camera because it relies on precise and complex cursor inputs. A moving camera and cursor inputs are fundamentally incompatible, you can only have one or the other.

The cursor gives precise control over your character's movements and swings, it gives greater freedom and control and allows for inputs to behave consistently relative to your character and opponent rather than an arbitrary or fixed direction. This means for example that pressing W+D and performing a certain motion with the cursor will reliably reproduce a dash combined with a specific wide swing that can hit your opponent's back and simultaneously dodge their attack. It also generally allows for accurate targeting.

You may be able to crudely get by in the arena with only very basic control of your character, however in the actual game when facing multiple opponents and features of the environment such limited control quickly becomes completely inadequate and also leads to serious visibility problems.

This camera and control scheme is what lends the combat its depth and fine grained control. A camera fixed from behind would reduce the combat to something extremely simplistic where it's only really possible to attack in the forward direction and truly skillful play is impossible.

 

[Roshawn Terrell]

I understand the potential limitations of 3rd person and first person.

What i also understand though, is that the current control scheme is simply not immersive, i feel disconnected from my actual character and its actions. I don't feel as if i am in the battle. This is entirely due to the camera.

Another thing, is that sure with the control scheme described above, yes currently that allows for more precision. But the current control scheme is still limited in the fact that you simply do not have full control over specifically where you wish to attack. And you simply can't have that control with this camera view simply due to the lack of depth perception.

Now i don't know the solution to the current problem, or to some how make 3rd person or even better first person work. But what i do know for sure, is that third person or first person, are a far better option if you figure out how to make them work.

I submit that the developers should try their absolute best to figure out a way to make 3rd person or first person work, rather than settle with something that's inadequate compared to what could be.

 

[Tony]

I submit that the developers should try their absolute best to figure out a way to make 3rd person or first person work, rather than settle with something that's inadequate compared to what could be.

Interestingly enough the devs originally planned to use a third person camera. After testing it out they realized it just wasn't going to work so scrapped it and switched to the isometric view. First person and third person were both inadequate and had too many problems associated with each.

The current system allows all necessary game mechanics to function as intended and gives the player more control than either first person or third person camera perspectives (due to the cursor not being tied to the camera like it would be with both first and third person perspectives). The free roaming cursor is what the control scheme is based off of and so far no one has been able to present a system that would function better than what is currently used.

The devs will listen to suggestions and ideas but only if they are well thought-out and carefully considered. If an idea improves upon one thing but breaks ten others then it's not a valid suggestion. First ask yourself why things are the way they are in the game and keep in mind the devs have valid reasons for what they do; they've spent years designing the current system and have made literally hundreds of tweaks along the way to get it to where it's currently at. It's not just something they decided to do on whim... it is very unlikely someone who hasn't invested the time and effort that the devs have will come up with something better but you never know .

 

[Roryn]

Hey there, long time reader/player, first time poster.

I love how the iso camera works with controls, got no problem with that. I was wondering, however, if there could be an option to freely orbit the camera; not necessarily for combat or even exploration purposes, but just maybe when I'm standing still I'd like to be able to look at the sky... Because the sky is amazing in this game. It's definitely worthy of being looked at and admired.

Also, though "not vibrant" colours may be realistic, just being able to see the sky, which is realistic, adds a lot of life and vibrancy to an environment (not that I have a problem with the colour palette - I actually like it a lot). I guess it balances the tone of the landscape.

I don't know anything about making games, but toggling camera orbit shouldn't be impossible.. or should it?

 

[Roshawn Terrell]

The devs will listen to suggestions and ideas but only if they are well thought-out and carefully considered. If an idea improves upon one thing but breaks ten others then it's not a valid suggestion. First ask yourself why things are the way they are in the game and keep in mind the devs have valid reasons for what they do; they've spent years designing the current system and have made literally hundreds of tweaks along the way to get it to where it's currently at. It's not just something they decided to do on whim... it is very unlikely someone who hasn't invested the time and effort that the devs have will come up with something better but you never know .

Thank you very much for the response.

I have been thinking very hard for a solution.

And the conclusion i have come to, is that the true limitation here, is the mouse keyboard and 2 dimensional monitor setup.

I realized, that with a virtual reality headset, all these problems would be non-existent.

I also think there are problems with trying to map complex movement onto something as crude as WASD keys.

Movement is inherently analog, not digital.

Now i am sure that completely revamping your game to VR is likely something too far to even consider. But, consider this, not doing so, would effectively be making the decision to limit your game from what it could be.

Imagine the possibilities from even taking advantage of Vive motion controllers.

 

[Roryn]

Ehh, I dunno about limiting the game from what it could be.. Right now, I think it's heading towards the path of everything it should be.

...Except for the sky. I need to be able to see the sky!!

 

[Achul]

I should make an illustrated guide in a seperate post for this since a lot of people always had trouble with it but here's a short tutorial on how tomake all your troubles go away.



Buy a mouse or use a mouse with secondary buttons for the thumb.


Bind the key that is currently binded to your spacebar for "centering the camera" to one of the two thumb buttons on your mouse.


Now it doesn't feel as awkward as holding down the spacebar anymore. And forget all that about clicking it.
Unless you want to make a special move just keep holding the mouse button with your thumb and the camera will always be centered on your hero.

I quite like the system with this little tweak. It gives you the abillity to change angles when you need them like when youre close to a wall or want to make a huge swing but most of the time you just keep it centered.


Also try zooming in and it will feel as if you are closer to your characters point of view
Though I agree, tilting the camera further to provide a FPS view shouldn't be hard to implement. IN fact I assume it has been restricted for some reason, probably to provide less abillity to view down long corridors.

 

[Roshawn Terrell]

I should make an illustrated guide in a seperate post for this since a lot of people always had trouble with it but here's a short tutorial on how tomake all your troubles go away.



Buy a mouse or use a mouse with secondary buttons for the thumb.


Bind the key that is currently binded to your spacebar for "centering the camera" to one of the two thumb buttons on your mouse.


Now it doesn't feel as awkward as holding down the spacebar anymore. And forget all that about clicking it.
Unless you want to make a special move just keep holding the mouse button with your thumb and the camera will always be centered on your hero.

I quite like the system with this little tweak. It gives you the abillity to change angles when you need them like when youre close to a wall or want to make a huge swing but most of the time you just keep it centered.


Also try zooming in and it will feel as if you are closer to your characters point of view
Though I agree, tilting the camera further to provide a FPS view shouldn't be hard to implement. IN fact I assume it has been restricted for some reason, probably to provide less abillity to view down long corridors.

Thank you very much for the suggestion.

You should check out my most recent post called "Solution to fix the camera problem".

http://www.baremettle.com/forums/index.php?threads/solution-to-fix-the-camera-problem.4874/page-2