Thoughts and Ideas General

Fracs

Member
I'm missing more weapon variations. Just different skins, really. It's always the exact same kind of rusty sword or axe you find. Later on, it's the same kind of upgraded sword or axe you find.
This is a smaller thing. But it is those sorts of details which make a difference in finding new loot and gear.
We have 2 magic items and 3 items that req. magic source for now. For a low fantasy game that is very good.
 

Tyon

Member
I'm missing more weapon variations. Just different skins, really. It's always the exact same kind of rusty sword or axe you find. Later on, it's the same kind of upgraded sword or axe you find.
This is a smaller thing. But it is those sorts of details which make a difference in finding new loot and gear.
There will be procedurally generated weapons, so basically a lot more variety.
 

Nomad

Member
We have 2 magic items and 3 items that req. magic source for now. For a low fantasy game that is very good.
There are monster, magic and undead in a fictitious medieval fantasy world. For a low fantasy game, that is very getting pretty far off.

I dont really want magic in the game at all.
 

HopeDIV

Moderator
There are monster, magic and undead in a fictitious medieval fantasy world. For a low fantasy game, that is very getting pretty far off.

I dont really want magic in the game at all.
Well the original KS pitch and Kickstarter had a decent amount of magic and fantasy elements. Somehow I think the magic is just beginning, might not be your jam.
 

Tyon

Member
Sorry, but magic or "thaumaturgy" is going to be a big part of the game. I do not think it's too far off for a low fantasy game, as long as the said monsters and magic have a reasonable and thought out explanation, which all the current ones do besides Sir.
 

Nomad

Member
Sorry, but magic or "thaumaturgy" is going to be a big part of the game. I do not think it's too far off for a low fantasy game, as long as the said monsters and magic have a reasonable and thought out explanation, which all the current ones do besides Sir.
I know. But still; with this being the case there is not real reason anymore to not go full on fantasy.
I just hope magic isn't "necessary" to play. By that I mean: I hope I can ignore magic without missing anything.
 

Tony

Insider
I know. But still; with this being the case there is not real reason anymore to not go full on fantasy.
I just hope magic isn't "necessary" to play. By that I mean: I hope I can ignore magic without missing anything.
Hmm? Thaumaturgy was planned since the beginning (back in 2012 during the SG Kickstarter campaign). It's definitely not anything new and the lore/story in both SG and Exanima rely heavily upon it. However, just because thaumaturgy exists doesn't automatically mean the game is high fantasy or that anything goes. Thaumaturgy still must abide by the laws and rules of the world in which the game(s) take place (a.k.a. low fantasy).
 

Tyon

Member
I know. But still; with this being the case there is not real reason anymore to not go full on fantasy.
I just hope magic isn't "necessary" to play. By that I mean: I hope I can ignore magic without missing anything.
There are other characters in the game now (Knight and Villager) which wont be able to use any kind of magic once it's added in. Magic wont be necessary since such characters are now in the game, but I imagine they will be much harder to play as.
 

Nomad

Member
Hmm? Thaumaturgy was planned since the beginning (back in 2012 during the SG Kickstarter campaign). It's definitely not anything new and the lore/story in both SG and Exanima rely heavily upon it. However, just because thaumaturgy exists doesn't automatically mean the game is high fantasy or that anything goes. Thaumaturgy still must abide by the laws and rules of the world in which the game(s) take place (a.k.a. low fantasy).
I know it was. But I don't have to like that part of it. Only accept it.
My problem with magic is that it often work like cheat codes, and turns the game more into a playground, which in turn decrease immersion. Did you see the gameplay video with teleportation? It's borderline silly. Teleporting around without a care. Teleporting (ortherwise difficult enemies) into the air to fall to their deaths.

And btw. that is not the definition of low fantasy.
In high fantasy there are, or can be, laws of nature just the same. Low stands for the level of "fantasy". For how much one needs to imagine or believe/take for granted. Magic, a fictitious world with supernatural elements and creatures is low fantasy individually - but they quickly add up. Just because its grim, dark and realistic fighting does not make it more low fantasy - that is style and atmosphere.

I'm very excited about this game because it does something no other game has ever done.
 

Nomad

Member
Well the original KS pitch and Kickstarter had a decent amount of magic and fantasy elements. Somehow I think the magic is just beginning, might not be your jam.
It's hard to say at this stage. But Im the type who never plays as a mage in games.
 

Tony

Insider
And btw. that is not the definition of low fantasy.
In high fantasy there are, or can be, laws of nature just the same. Low stands for the level of "fantasy". For how much one needs to imagine or believe/take for granted. Magic, a fictitious world with supernatural elements and creatures is low fantasy individually - but they quickly add up. Just because its grim, dark and realistic fighting does not make it more low fantasy - that is style and atmosphere.
According to whom? The definitions of high/low fantasy are not strictly defined and tend to change based upon whom you ask... I go by the definition which BM uses since it is their game we are talking about. In their game they want everything to make sense, to abide by logic and reason and to follow the rules of the world in which they exist. For example, they don't explain things with "because fantasy" or "because magic" like you typically see in high fantasy. A necromancer won't be able to just make minions appear out of thin air without any explanation (high fantasy); they must find a corpse and use mind thaumaturgy to evoke the transcended mind of the dead (low fantasy).
 

Stekkmen

Member
I know it was. But I don't have to like that part of it. Only accept it.
My problem with magic is that it often work like cheat codes, and turns the game more into a playground, which in turn decrease immersion. Did you see the gameplay video with teleportation? It's borderline silly. Teleporting around without a care. Teleporting (ortherwise difficult enemies) into the air to fall to their deaths.

And btw. that is not the definition of low fantasy.
In high fantasy there are, or can be, laws of nature just the same. Low stands for the level of "fantasy". For how much one needs to imagine or believe/take for granted. Magic, a fictitious world with supernatural elements and creatures is low fantasy individually - but they quickly add up. Just because its grim, dark and realistic fighting does not make it more low fantasy - that is style and atmosphere.

I'm very excited about this game because it does something no other game has ever done.
I agree with you on the teleportation thing, it looked very silly.

However, there is a large difference between high and low fantasy to me, and that's the small-scale and occasionally large-scale consistency of the world.

Example, in Skyrim, I don't believe it is ever explained what the requirements for having magic are. Do some people have magic, and others don't? Apparently so, as magic users are very rare enemies to face. And yet, no one even expresses the slightest surprise or intrigue at the player character's magic ability. Why don't the bandits have magic? Why don't the guards? The townspeople? Who knows. But they don't. Why? Because game, that's why. Game. that's the reason.

Why are there so many bandits? where are they coming from? what are they even doing out here? Game! Game is the reason.

These questions are not mysteries, things meant for the player to find out or theorize on. They are simply there for the game.

Questions like "Why are these people down in this dungeon? Why do they look like that?" In Exanima can be answered through the game world.

What is Sir? What's he doing down here? These are not questions the game has failed to answer. Sir is not there so the player can fight him. Instead, he has his own reasons to be there that can eventually be pieced together. If Exanima was high fantasy, there would probably be three giant monsters running around. If Exanima was high fantasy, there would not be ruined storage rooms or realistic design layouts. The whole thing would be clearly based around the player. Like in Skyrim. You go this way, then this way, then that way, kill the boss, get the treasure, and then leave through the convenient shortcut. What? Why hasn't anyone been down here yet? Why haven't people found the convenient shortcut and gone through that way? What's even the point of this place? To hide your treasure? Ever heard of a bank, dumbass?

I'm getting off topic, but yeah. At least, that's what I think is what makes Exanima special.
 

Nomad

Member
According to whom? The definitions of high/low fantasy are not strictly defined and tend to change based upon whom you ask... I go by the definition which BM uses since it is their game we are talking about. In their game they want everything to make sense, to abide by logic and reason and to follow the rules of the world in which they exist. For example, they don't explain things with "because fantasy" or "because magic" like you typically see in high fantasy. A necromancer won't be able to just make minions appear out of thin air without any explanation (high fantasy); they must find a corpse and use mind thaumaturgy to evoke the transcended mind of the dead (low fantasy).
It is, of course not defined by any single person. Its a subgenre fantasy or a more defined one. Granted there is not a hard, red line. Therefore it is not really necessary to disuse it too much.
But to humor you, I would say Exanima is in the high end of Low fantasy. And ElderScrolls is in the low end of High fantasy.
A Lack of an explanation for why something is there does not make a world High fantasy - That is the players lack of knowledge of the world (Just like the real world).
 
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Nomad

Member
I agree with you on the teleportation thing, it looked very silly.

However, there is a large difference between high and low fantasy to me, and that's the small-scale and occasionally large-scale consistency of the world.

Example, in Skyrim, I don't believe it is ever explained what the requirements for having magic are. Do some people have magic, and others don't? Apparently so, as magic users are very rare enemies to face. And yet, no one even expresses the slightest surprise or intrigue at the player character's magic ability. Why don't the bandits have magic? Why don't the guards? The townspeople? Who knows. But they don't. Why? Because game, that's why. Game. that's the reason.

Why are there so many bandits? where are they coming from? what are they even doing out here? Game! Game is the reason.

These questions are not mysteries, things meant for the player to find out or theorize on. They are simply there for the game.

Questions like "Why are these people down in this dungeon? Why do they look like that?" In Exanima can be answered through the game world.

What is Sir? What's he doing down here? These are not questions the game has failed to answer. Sir is not there so the player can fight him. Instead, he has his own reasons to be there that can eventually be pieced together. If Exanima was high fantasy, there would probably be three giant monsters running around. If Exanima was high fantasy, there would not be ruined storage rooms or realistic design layouts. The whole thing would be clearly based around the player. Like in Skyrim. You go this way, then this way, then that way, kill the boss, get the treasure, and then leave through the convenient shortcut. What? Why hasn't anyone been down here yet? Why haven't people found the convenient shortcut and gone through that way? What's even the point of this place? To hide your treasure? Ever heard of a bank, dumbass?

I'm getting off topic, but yeah. At least, that's what I think is what makes Exanima special.
Why are you calling me a dumbass? Are you too dumb to stay on topic?
Im not even gonna answer you because I think you are gonna be a prick and bitch about everything.
 

-Tim-

Insider
Why are you calling me a dumbass? Are you too dumb to stay on topic?
Im not even gonna answer you because I think you are gonna be a prick and bitch about everything.
Hold on, I don't think that sentence was aimed at you personally. It was just rhetorical flourish.

I believe the high/low fantasy discussion is quite interesting and deserves its own thread.
 

Tyon

Member
I was just staring at the Maximilian armor set I had finally managed to get all the parts for and recalled that mitten gauntlets exist, would be cool if we saw a pair of those added in the game. Though I'm not sure how they'd be balanced since they're more protective than finger gauntlets but the advantage of finger gauntlets (being able to move your fingers) doesn't apply in this game..
 
I was just staring at the Maximilian armor set I had finally managed to get all the parts for and recalled that mitten gauntlets exist, would be cool if we saw a pair of those added in the game. Though I'm not sure how they'd be balanced since they're more protective than finger gauntlets but the advantage of finger gauntlets (being able to move your fingers) doesn't apply in this game..
Mitten gauntlets could have more encumbrance points (probably, half-point) than finger gauntlets for their less mobility (UPD maybe I'm totally wrong in this opinion), and more slash resistance points (again, half-point) for their "fullness".
 

HopeDIV

Moderator
Why are you calling me a dumbass? Are you too dumb to stay on topic?
Im not even gonna answer you because I think you are gonna be a prick and bitch about everything.
As Tim pointed out, hes referring to other fantasy game designs, not your post. I.E "why is (npc) hiding their treasure in a cave, haven't they heard of a bank?"
 
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