Writing

[Humblerbee]

There have been several calls for BME to hire a writer for this project. While I agree with that, I think it's also very possible for them to execute the game without, though a good writer would be a great boon- if this game has been brewing in Madoc's mind as long as he says, I'm sure he's got a direct vision and he knows exactly what he wants, a writer would just be there to hone that vision to a fine point, to take the awesome raw potential and hammer it into greatness.

But, sidestepping the staffing question for the moment, I want to bring up something that's concerning me. From reading the KS update page, and the brief glimpse we have of the story, we see some really bad generic plot. A typical villager with secret powers ostracized, going up against the evil wizards who are doing bad things and stirring up the evil underworld! Of course, the meat of the story is hidden, with a great number of plot twists apparently that cannot be shared, so perhaps you are intentionally making the premise bland and generic only to subvert it quickly, perhaps the opening is a satire of the tropes so common in the genre, and in actuality you have a wonderful tongue-in-cheek deep and driven plot that will surprise us at every twist and turn and be a unique, amazing story. However, all I see is the bland story outline surrounded by great gameplay ideas, which worries me.

I would at the very least consult a writer, I'm sure you could find a writer who would be willing to give constructive feedback on your plot and story- not to say that you guys aren't competent writers, or that you don't have good ideas, but a professional writer would, at worst, simply vindicate your position and confirm that you already are doing well, and at best could make major improvements and help the project immensely in one of the key elements of an RPG. If you don't hire a writer, I'd urge you, please take a second look at the premise you have laid out, and reconsider, find some ways to make it it's own and step above blandness. As I've said, the gameplay ideas I've heard are all excellent, the core concept is great, and I love the freedom of choice, moral grey area ambiguity, and dynamism of the game. But what small tidbits we've heard of the plot does little to inspire confidence.

 

[Madoc]

Hi Humblerbee,

As we've said before if the resources are available to us we will hire a writer, though to be honest this would be largely with the aim of alleviating the workload than to actually improve the quality of the writing, to meet the standards that we hold that writer would require fairly exceptional talent.

Yes, the story does at first appear much like generic fantasy, it is what we want people to believe when they begin playing our game. We then want lots of "wait... what?" moments. We are taking many of the elements that are common in fantasy RPGs and giving them a new spin. As is not common in the genre, there is a good, credible explanation to why things are as they are. And I'm already saying too much! You're not really supposed to know this if you want to fully enjoy the game.

 

[Humblerbee]

Hi Humblerbee,

As we've said before if the resources are available to us we will hire a writer, though to be honest this would be largely with the aim of alleviating the workload than to actually improve the quality of the writing, to meet the standards that we hold that writer would require fairly exceptional talent.

Yes, the story does at first appear much like generic fantasy, it is what we want people to believe when they begin playing our game. We then want lots of "wait... what?" moments. We are taking many of the elements that are common in fantasy RPGs and giving them a new spin. As is not common in the genre, there is a good, credible explanation to why things are as they are. And I'm already saying too much! You're not really supposed to know this if you want to fully enjoy the game.

Alas, the very nature of the plot makes it a catch twenty-two trying to market it. It's greatness lies in it's twists and mysteries, but you can't reveal that or you spoil the very thing that makes it great. Well, I believe you guys will deliver, I just needed to hear that you were aware that what little you had shown was generic- knowing that is intentional puts me at ease. You keep making me so excited to explore the mysterious world you're crafting, it's histories and it's secrets, with your tantalization.

 

[Barn the Bear]

Hey Madoc,

Just want to say that trying to find an exceptional writer shouldn't be too difficult, and, in fact, it shouldn't cost too much of your resources if you find someone with real passion for the project.

I'm sure you and your team already have it covered and have looked into different writers, but, as a backer and someone who really believes in the project, I know a few people that could help with things such as dialogue and in-game lore and writing.

 

[Skiesbleed]

Considering the small size of the team, don't you think it's necessary to add a dedicated writer? If the writing is split between a team where ever member is the only person working on a given area of the game, it seems like either their dedicated area or the writing will suffer as a result, the scope will need to be decreased, or the game schedule will need to slide to accommodate shifting roles.

 

[Gusmil]

If anyone of you five had written a novel or a book overall I wouldnt mind you writing it, but I doubt it, so a writer would be the best way to express all you ideas.

 

[Skiesbleed]

Yes, I also believe in the importance of high quality writing, and dedicated writers have much more expertise in this area. It's not just how interesting the story is, it's the tone of writing itself, the ability to embody different characters within the story to give them more personality, and mastery of story-telling techniques like foreshadowing and dramatic irony.

 

[PipesOfMadness]

Hi Humblerbee,

As we've said before if the resources are available to us we will hire a writer, though to be honest this would be largely with the aim of alleviating the workload than to actually improve the quality of the writing, to meet the standards that we hold that writer would require fairly exceptional talent.

Yes, the story does at first appear much like generic fantasy, it is what we want people to believe when they begin playing our game. We then want lots of "wait... what?" moments. We are taking many of the elements that are common in fantasy RPGs and giving them a new spin. As is not common in the genre, there is a good, credible explanation to why things are as they are. And I'm already saying too much! You're not really supposed to know this if you want to fully enjoy the game.

I'm so delighted to hear this. I was having the same concerns as Humblerbee, but it's good to know you're on top of it. I just hope that your enigmatic approach won't give too much of a negative first impression like it gave me (having your story disguised like this). This project should receive plenty of support from backers and every pledge counts. However, sometimes art and surprise require sacrifice. Then again, maybe a generic fantasy RPG world might appeal to a larger audience so it might even work in your favor.

 

[Valvar]

I'd just like to chip this in:

While I have no doubts that you would be able to create an amazing world with great sidestories and encounters, I think a project needs a good professional writer if the story is to be top-notch.

 

[Madoc]

We are in fact in the process of hiring a professional, award winning writer. For obvious reasons, we don't want to reveal such things publicly until they are finalised. Please understand that when we state our intention to do something we mean it and we are really trying to do everything possible with the resources available to us. We are not underestimating the importance of writing.

I would however like to stress again that we are quite confident in the writing ability of existing team members and that a significant creative effort has already gone into this game's setting, and that we are very pleased with it. Our concern is that we might not be able to dedicate an appropriate amount of time to making it manifest. My stance is that writing is a skill that can be refined and practiced as a profession, I do not believe it to be some mystical power that can only be attributed to those who carry out such a profession. I'm sorry if you find this in any way offensive.

 

[Humblerbee]

We are in fact in the process of hiring a professional, award winning writer. For obvious reasons, we don't want to reveal such things publicly until they are finalised. Please understand that when we state our intention to do something we mean it and we are really trying to do everything possible with the resources available to us. We are not underestimating the importance of writing.

I would however like to stress again that we are quite confident in the writing ability of existing team members and that a significant creative effort has already gone into this game's setting, and that we are very pleased with it. Our concern is that we might not be able to dedicate an appropriate amount of time to making it manifest. My stance is that writing is a skill that can be refined and practiced as a profession, I do not believe it to be some mystical power that can only be attributed to those who carry out such a profession. I'm sorry if you find this in any way offensive.

Just want to say, I respect you even more now Madoc for this kind of follow through, and taking such quick action in regards to community feedback.

 

[Marius Voinescu]

We are in fact in the process of hiring a professional, award winning writer. For obvious reasons, we don't want to reveal such things publicly until they are finalised. Please understand that when we state our intention to do something we mean it and we are really trying to do everything possible with the resources available to us. We are not underestimating the importance of writing.

I would however like to stress again that we are quite confident in the writing ability of existing team members and that a significant creative effort has already gone into this game's setting, and that we are very pleased with it. Our concern is that we might not be able to dedicate an appropriate amount of time to making it manifest. My stance is that writing is a skill that can be refined and practiced as a profession, I do not believe it to be some mystical power that can only be attributed to those who carry out such a profession. I'm sorry if you find this in any way offensive.

And I quite agree with Madoc on this point, I fancy my self a writer and I like to weave the text into a interesting blend of art and logic that have people enthralled, like most other things in life if you got the time to put passion into it, people will be amazed by what you create.
And more to the point I would offer what ever tallent I posses to the team at Bare Mettle for free, simply because they have that spark of passion that is needed to make something truly wonderous.

 

[Soren]

Talented writers can make the most stereotypic plot exciting and moving, just as well as the most original plot can fall to the ground if you have no ability to make it come alive and seem convincing. As such, the overall plot is just a structure - something I feel many game designers (and gamers) focus way too single-mindedly on, as if considering radical plot twists and something-never-seen-before as paramount and inherently good. I'm much more interested in experiencing what content you manage to fill into that frame.

 

[Algea]

I was thinking about bad writing today (right after I read this topic) and maybe it's going to sound strange, but I found Dragon Age: Origins' storyline very generic, bland and boring. With all its flaws the second installment in Dragon Age series (I'm talking about DA2) is much closer to my ideal plot. While DAO plot was supposedly grand and epic it was repetitive and backward, DA2 let me to live like Hawke, to be an adventurer, to care about myself and my family (despite all the cliched situations and dubious design decisions the devs made). It's probably just me liking being Hawke more than being a Grey Warden, but from what I've gathered Sui Generis will be a story of one person sticking to themselves and to their ways. I want to be that adventurer.

I wonder though what's going to happen if I totally ditch fighting the evil guys? Will I be forced to do it? Will there be a formal ending in this game? Will there ever be *YOU FAILED* message across my screen?

 

[Tony]

I wonder though what's going to happen if I totally ditch fighting the evil guys? Will I be forced to do it? Will there be a formal ending in this game? Will there ever be *YOU FAILED* message across my screen?

I think seeing a "you failed" message is highly unlikely. In the interview Madoc did with Forbes, he gave an example of accidentally killing the main antagonist by rolling a boulder off of a cliff. He said the game would still continue and you'd likely never even know that you closed off that part of the story due to your actions. He also said that such an occurrence was not likely to happen, but it was just an example of how their story will work. Your actions will have consequences - some will be obvious and others not so much.

Another thing which was mentioned is that some opponents will be very difficult to defeat and you'll have the option to continue to play in a world with a character that you've already leveled-up (or the equivalent in Sui Generis). In this way it might take several play-throughs in order for you to be powerful enough to defeat certain opponents.

EDIT: this is the quote I was thinking of:

The idea is that you create a world instance and a character and yes, you can create new world instances and drop an existing character in. Difficulty scaling is something we're still not entirely sure about but it might take you a few play throughs before you can deal with some really hard fights. It's partly up to you how difficult the game is.

 

[Algea]

Tony what if I die too many times? Will penalties be too severe to continue playing? I think there has been no definite answer about death penalties yet. Will the death penalty always be the same or will the death penalty increase with the number of deaths? Will there be any death penalty at all?

 

[Tony]

Tony what if I die too many times? Will penalties be too severe to continue playing? I think there has been no definite answer about death penalties yet. Will the death penalty always be the same or will the death penalty increase with the number of deaths? Will there be any death penalty at all?

All good questions! I doubt that death penalties will stop you from continuing and enjoying your gameplay experience. There was yet another statement made that death will be common in Sui Generis. I doubt they'd design such mechanics that would ruin your gameplay experience if they also planned on making death commonplace.